Preset Output Levels in 2.92

[DunedinDragon]

After not playing for a few months due to the COVID-19 adventure, we finally started up again last week.  In preparation for doing so I was going over my presets (which were built prior to 2.92) and I noticed a considerable decrease in my output levels under 2.92 on most of my presets as measured by  the signal meters of my mixing board.  It's been easy to adjust them using the amp model's channel volume, but I was wondering if anyone else noticed this.  I thought it might be an unintended artifact of the signal level warning lights on the Helix or maybe even the compression level guage.

[SaschaFranck]

I didn't notice anything like that - but then, I didn't really watch any input meters carefully at all.

Are they all attanuated by the same amount?

[DunedinDragon]

1 hour ago, SaschaFranck said:

I didn't notice anything like that - but then, I didn't really watch any input meters carefully at all.

Are they all attanuated by the same amount?

 

Somewhat.  There does seem to be a bit of an influence by the LA Comp in the last block than without it, but generally all about the same.  Probably about a 4 to 6db change.

[SaschaFranck]

Hm, so you could possibly just raise the overall volume and call it a day, no?

[DunedinDragon]

50 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

Hm, so you could possibly just raise the overall volume and call it a day, no?

 

Not really.  I'm measuring from the XLR out which is disengaged from the Helix volume knob so it's sending a full volume Mic level signal.  Since I can't say the signal level drop is consistent I'll just adjust the amp model's channel volume on each patch.  That way the 1/4" out signal as well as the XLR out signal are both adjusted by the same amount.  Like I said before, it's not really a huge deal.  I was just curious if others have seen this.

[SaschaFranck]

Fwiw, this is raising another issue/wish of mine: I fail to see why there isn't a separate volume control for the XLR outs once you decouple them from the volume knob. Would make plenty of sense. I've already been running into a situation where the FOH dude was asking me for more than just mic level (which I'm usually using as well) but line level's been too strong already. Did only happen twice so far, but still. Should be not much of an efffort to add this.

[silverhead]

1 hour ago, SaschaFranck said:

Fwiw, this is raising another issue/wish of mine: I fail to see why there isn't a separate volume control for the XLR outs once you decouple them from the volume knob. Would make plenty of sense. I've already been running into a situation where the FOH dude was asking me for more than just mic level (which I'm usually using as well) but line level's been too strong already. Did only happen twice so far, but still. Should be not much of an efffort to add this.

Have you tried using the Global EQ to add a bit of a boost to the XLR output signal? I’m not at my Helix at the moment but I expect there’s a Level parameter in the Global EQ.

[DunedinDragon]

1 hour ago, SaschaFranck said:

Fwiw, this is raising another issue/wish of mine: I fail to see why there isn't a separate volume control for the XLR outs once you decouple them from the volume knob. Would make plenty of sense. I've already been running into a situation where the FOH dude was asking me for more than just mic level (which I'm usually using as well) but line level's been too strong already. Did only happen twice so far, but still. Should be not much of an efffort to add this.

 

I'm curious how these soundmen would handle it if they had a mic whose signal level was weaker than a mic on a different channel.  Maybe then they'd find their way to the gain/trim knob on the channel on the mixer....which is why it's there.

[SaschaFranck]

8 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

 

I'm curious how these soundmen would handle it if they had a mic whose signal level was weaker than a mic on a different channel.  Maybe then they'd find their way to the gain/trim knob on the channel on the mixer....which is why it's there.

 

Yeah well, I was wondering myself, too. But then, I couldn't help it, festival stuff and soundguys you don't know.

 

15 minutes ago, silverhead said:

Have you tried using the Global EQ to add a bit of a boost to the XLR output signal? I’m not at my Helix at the moment but I expect there’s a Level parameter in the Global EQ.

 

There is. But I'm reserving the global EQ for my monitoring.

[phil_m]

On 6/3/2020 at 12:09 PM, DunedinDragon said:

After not playing for a few months due to the COVID-19 adventure, we finally started up again last week.  In preparation for doing so I was going over my presets (which were built prior to 2.92) and I noticed a considerable decrease in my output levels under 2.92 on most of my presets as measured by  the signal meters of my mixing board.  It's been easy to adjust them using the amp model's channel volume, but I was wondering if anyone else noticed this.  I thought it might be an unintended artifact of the signal level warning lights on the Helix or maybe even the compression level guage.

Did you do a Restore from Backup after updating? The update resets at least some of the global settings.

[DunedinDragon]

13 hours ago, phil_m said:

Did you do a Restore from Backup after updating? The update resets at least some of the global settings.

 

I'm used to restoring my global settings, generally by hand because I know which ones I've changed from the defaults.  Unless the update changed some of the defaults they should be fine.  I'll look into that, but as I said it's not a problem for me as I can fix it easily by adjusting the amp model channel volume.  Given some of the changes in 2.92 particularly with the compression indicator as well as the new EQ blocks I'm making adjustments anyway on most of my presets anyway so it's not really a problem.

[spikey]

On 6/3/2020 at 2:36 PM, DunedinDragon said:

Probably about a 4 to 6db change.

 

4 to 6 db is a LOT of change! Lineout levels are not the same as output (wattage), but there every 3 DB down it halfs the power, so thats noticable. I didn't notice the change on this end but may have just turned it up and saved without thinking too. No biggy but still, I wonder what got changed?

[DunedinDragon]

49 minutes ago, spikey said:

 

4 to 6 db is a LOT of change! Lineout levels are not the same as output (wattage), but there every 3 DB down it halfs the power, so thats noticable. I didn't notice the change on this end but may have just turned it up and saved without thinking too. No biggy but still, I wonder what got changed?

 

That's actually 4db on the signal meter which I'm not sure that's measured the same as SPL or is related to wattage because a mixer really has nothing to do with wattage, just signal level to whatever amp it comes in contact with on output, but it is noticeable.  It's roughly the same as the difference between a lead vocalist and a supporting instrument in the mix.  But I have plenty of headroom in my Helix signal, so it comes down to a difference on a typical amp model of having the channel volume set at 4.5 needing to be changed to around 5.6 or so.

[spikey]

6 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

That's actually 4db on the signal meter

 

Ahh thanks for the clarification. Yea 3db is not "twice as loud" or "twice as soft", its twice as much power if its + 3db, and half as much if its down  or -3db from what it was.  Whatever LOL! But 3 db is noticeable.