Helix + Variax + Midi question

[scotterp]

I have been experimenting with using Midi Guitar 2 along with my Helix and it's been quite impressive so far, for what I want to be able to do. I have used the Control Center to setup foot switches to pass PC changes to an iPad to select different presets within MG2 and this has been working great.

 

Note that at this time, MG2 only responds to PC changes and not CC's. Also, I believe that MG2 listens on all midi channels and that cannot be changed. 

 

I have one thing happening that I can't figure out...

 

I am unable to prevent Midi messages generated from the Variax or Snapshots, from being sent out to MG2. I have installed Midi Wrench on my iPad and can see these messages occurring - PC's, CC's, and Sysex messages. 

 

It only happens under the following circumstances:

 

When I have a Variax connected to the Helix via the Variax input, moving the pickup switch or changing the model on the Variax is sending PC changes through and changing the presets on MG2.

 

I have Midi through off in the Helix. I thought this should keep PC changes from passing on to other devices but not in this situation. 

 

I have pretty much every Midi setting in the Helix turned off except for Midi via USB. 

 

Also, only when a Variax is plugged in AND the input of the Helix preset is set to Variax, selecting a different snapshot also sends out a PC change and changes the preset in Midi Guitar. I'm guessing that the Helix needs to communicate with the Variax and tell it what Variax settings to use per the preset.  

 

It appears that anything broadcast out the Variax connection is also broadcast out other connections - in this case the USB connection. My guess is that since I can't control what Midi channel MG2 listens on, I'm stuck with this happening. 

 

Any thoughts?

[HonestOpinion]

On 6/21/2020 at 5:47 PM, scotterp said:

I have been experimenting with using Midi Guitar 2 along with my Helix and it's been quite impressive so far, for what I want to be able to do. I have used the Control Center to setup foot switches to pass PC changes to an iPad to select different presets within MG2 and this has been working great.

 

Note that at this time, MG2 only responds to PC changes and not CC's. Also, I believe that MG2 listens on all midi channels and that cannot be changed. 

 

I have one thing happening that I can't figure out...

 

I am unable to prevent Midi messages generated from the Variax or Snapshots, from being sent out to MG2. I have installed Midi Wrench on my iPad and can see these messages occurring - PC's, CC's, and Sysex messages. 

 

It only happens under the following circumstances:

 

When I have a Variax connected to the Helix via the Variax input, moving the pickup switch or changing the model on the Variax is sending PC changes through and changing the presets on MG2.

 

I have Midi through off in the Helix. I thought this should keep PC changes from passing on to other devices but not in this situation. 

 

I have pretty much every Midi setting in the Helix turned off except for Midi via USB. 

 

Also, only when a Variax is plugged in AND the input of the Helix preset is set to Variax, selecting a different snapshot also sends out a PC change and changes the preset in Midi Guitar. I'm guessing that the Helix needs to communicate with the Variax and tell it what Variax settings to use per the preset.  

 

It appears that anything broadcast out the Variax connection is also broadcast out other connections - in this case the USB connection. My guess is that since I can't control what Midi channel MG2 listens on, I'm stuck with this happening. 

 

Any thoughts?

 

Try going to Global Settings and setting MIDI/Tempo>'MIDI PC Send'= "Off".

[scotterp]

MIDI PC Send is off. All MIDI global settings are set to Off with the exception of MIDI over USB. 

[cfhmonkey]

Second page of "Input Variax" screen. Diddle with the "Preset Variax Lock Control" knob. Set it to something other than "unlocked". Oddly enough I stumbled across this exact same issue this past weekend while figuring out how to use the Helix as a controller for TH-U iOS (just checking out other options). Every time I would flip the pickup switch it would change the preset on TH-U. Took a while and some head scratching to figure that one out. Solved the issue for me, hope it does the same for you.

 

The possibilities of combining the Variax / Helix / iPad (sometimes a Kemper) along with things like Midi Guitar 2 are mind blowing, particular for an old geezer like myself. Now if Line 6 would just come out with a USB send / return block for the Helix...

[scotterp]

@cfhmonkey -Thanks for the tip! I will give it a try and report back. 

[scotterp]

@cfhmonkey That did indeed stop the pickup switch from changing the preset on MG2! Thanks a ton for that. 

 

Changing the model using the Model knob on the Variax still sends out a signal... but that's something that I rarely do on the fly anymore. 

 

Now, if I could keep the snapshots from generating a message out the USB port and only have the buttons that I specifically setup to do so within the Command Center... :) 

[scotterp]

@cfhmonkey There is a request to add a USB Send/Return block here on Ideascale: https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/USB-Send-Return-Block/936618-23508#idea-tab-details.

 

Upvote it so that those that need to know about this request see interest.  

[cfhmonkey]

Thanks @scotterp, signed up and upvoted! Hope they implement, would be fantastically useful for my setup... 

[cfhmonkey]

On 6/22/2020 at 7:52 PM, scotterp said:

Now, if I could keep the snapshots from generating a message out the USB port and only have the buttons that I specifically setup to do so within the Command Center... :) 

 

Any luck with this issue? I'm stuck on this one as well.

[scotterp]

No such luck. 

[HonestOpinion]

On 6/21/2020 at 5:47 PM, scotterp said:

I have been experimenting with using Midi Guitar 2 along with my Helix and it's been quite impressive so far, for what I want to be able to do. I have used the Control Center to setup foot switches to pass PC changes to an iPad to select different presets within MG2 and this has been working great.

 

Note that at this time, MG2 only responds to PC changes and not CC's. Also, I believe that MG2 listens on all midi channels and that cannot be changed. 

 

I have one thing happening that I can't figure out...

 

I am unable to prevent Midi messages generated from the Variax or Snapshots, from being sent out to MG2. I have installed Midi Wrench on my iPad and can see these messages occurring - PC's, CC's, and Sysex messages. 

 

It only happens under the following circumstances:

 

When I have a Variax connected to the Helix via the Variax input, moving the pickup switch or changing the model on the Variax is sending PC changes through and changing the presets on MG2.

 

I have Midi through off in the Helix. I thought this should keep PC changes from passing on to other devices but not in this situation. 

 

I have pretty much every Midi setting in the Helix turned off except for Midi via USB. 

 

Also, only when a Variax is plugged in AND the input of the Helix preset is set to Variax, selecting a different snapshot also sends out a PC change and changes the preset in Midi Guitar. I'm guessing that the Helix needs to communicate with the Variax and tell it what Variax settings to use per the preset.  

 

It appears that anything broadcast out the Variax connection is also broadcast out other connections - in this case the USB connection. My guess is that since I can't control what Midi channel MG2 listens on, I'm stuck with this happening. 

 

Any thoughts?

 

Another less than ideal solution you probably already considered. Connect to your iPad via audio instead of USB.

 

Midi Guitar 2 only requires an audio connection not a MIDI connection. It then converts the audio in from your guitar into MIDI messages.  If you only connected to your iPad or a PC via audio then the Helix should not be passing MIDI messages. If the MIDI never makes it into the iPad then there should be no issue with erroneous preset changes caused by the Variax.  Of course you lose the ability to change presets in MG2 using Helix MIDI.

 

https://www.speechrecsolutions.com/assets/iPad_and_microphones.pdf

[scotterp]

1 hour ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Another less than ideal solution you probably already considered. Connect to your iPad via audio instead of USB.

 

Midi Guitar 2 only requires an audio connection not a MIDI connection. It then converts the audio in from your guitar into MIDI messages.  If you only connected to your iPad or a PC via audio that Helix should not be passing MIDI messages. If the MIDI never makes it into the iPad then there should be no issue with erroneous preset changes caused by the Variax.  Of course you lose the ability to change presets in MG2 using Helix MIDI.

 

https://www.speechrecsolutions.com/assets/iPad_and_microphones.pdf

@HonestOpinion I actually do want to send MIDI messages to change the presets in MG2 from the Helix. I have buttons setup to do so in Command Center and that is working just fine. I can press the Mode button, and select various presets that I want to send to MG2. 

 

However, when I change snapshots, I do not want messages to go out the USB port. I think it does this to send out necessary messages to the Variax. It just happens to also send out messages via the USB connection at the same time. This only happens on a preset where I do have the input set to the Variax as I want some snapshots to change the guitar selection in the Variax. On a different preset, I'm only using the pickups and the snapshot changes do not send anything out. 

 

I see 2 possible solutions and both require changes in someone's software:

1) If MG2 could specify which MIDI channel it is listening on, I could configure my buttons in Command Center to send signals out only on that channel. It would then ignore what gets sent out with the snapshot change. This does not appear to be something on the horizon from the maker of MG2. 

2) Change the Helix so that it doesn't broadcast snapshot changes out the USB port, only the MIDI port. Or something of that nature. 

 

For now I can absolutely live with it. Not a deal breaker. I do not use the integration with MG2 too much - it is just fantastic to have. I had been using a Sunth9 but having the ability to control MG2 with MIDI AND have more sound options is great. 

[HonestOpinion]

3 hours ago, scotterp said:

@HonestOpinion I actually do want to send MIDI messages to change the presets in MG2 from the Helix. I have buttons setup to do so in Command Center and that is working just fine. I can press the Mode button, and select various presets that I want to send to MG2. 

 

However, when I change snapshots, I do not want messages to go out the USB port. I think it does this to send out necessary messages to the Variax. It just happens to also send out messages via the USB connection at the same time. This only happens on a preset where I do have the input set to the Variax as I want some snapshots to change the guitar selection in the Variax. On a different preset, I'm only using the pickups and the snapshot changes do not send anything out. 

 

I see 2 possible solutions and both require changes in someone's software:

1) If MG2 could specify which MIDI channel it is listening on, I could configure my buttons in Command Center to send signals out only on that channel. It would then ignore what gets sent out with the snapshot change. This does not appear to be something on the horizon from the maker of MG2. 

2) Change the Helix so that it doesn't broadcast snapshot changes out the USB port, only the MIDI port. Or something of that nature. 

 

For now I can absolutely live with it. Not a deal breaker. I do not use the integration with MG2 too much - it is just fantastic to have. I had been using a Sunth9 but having the ability to control MG2 with MIDI AND have more sound options is great. 

 

Yep, I like your two proposed solutions best. Another way to approach it now, at least on a PC although maybe there is an equivalent app on iOS might be to "pre-filter", block or remap selected MIDI messages. I think MIDI-OX might be able to do this as well as something like the app below.

 

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/midi-relink/9nst6mf1lznv?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

[HonestOpinion]

Btw, just a heads up. I downloaded Midi Guitar 2 on both my Windows laptop and iPhone. I don't have a camera kit adapter for my iPhone but as you say I could not find anywhere to set the MIDI channel MG2 listens on the iOS version. However the Windows version of MG2 has a tab called "Interface" that allows you to select the Helix(connected over USB) and then set the MIDI channel you prefer. Assuming this is the MIDI channel MG2 is listening on you could then set the channel to for example "2" and then go to your Helix and set your global preferences 'MIDI/Tempo' --> 'MIDI Base Channel' = "1".  You could then send the MIDI messages to change the MG2 presets from the Helix Command Center on channel "2". Any random Variax MIDI messages you don't want would be sent on the Helix base channel you set(in this example "1") which is not being listened to by MG2. This assumes three things though.

1. You don't mind switching to the Windows version of MG2(or probably Mac if you prefer) instead of using an iPad for MG2.
2. The "Interface" section of MG2 is referring to the MIDI channel it is listening on(I believe it is).
3. That the Variax only sends MIDI messages out on the "MIDI Base Channel" the Helix is set to and not "Omni". That's probably a safe bet but I haven't tested it.

Sorry, that is as far as I got testing this.

 

[scotterp]

@HonestOpinion Wow! You really dug into this! I appreciate all your efforts.

 

The reason I wouldn't want to go with the PC version is that I'm looking for a live solution. I don't what to have to deal with a computer/laptop live. I have set things up so that my older iPad mini can be tucked away in a protective box near my Helix.

 

The PC version does have more options from what I understand, I have not looked very deeply into it though. I just don't want to introduce a laptop into this mix. 

[HonestOpinion]

3 hours ago, scotterp said:

@HonestOpinion Wow! You really dug into this! I appreciate all your efforts.

 

The reason I wouldn't want to go with the PC version is that I'm looking for a live solution. I don't what to have to deal with a computer/laptop live. I have set things up so that my older iPad mini can be tucked away in a protective box near my Helix.

 

The PC version does have more options from what I understand, I have not looked very deeply into it though. I just don't want to introduce a laptop into this mix. 

 

Thanks for the heads up on MIDI Guitar 2. That is a very cool product. Not sure I want to shell out the $100 for the non-trial version of it yet but I may. That is some appealing tech.