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Helix Floor with UAD Apollo Routing


c_frederick
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Hi there,

Sorry if this post is a bit long; I'll try to be succinct but it's a complex question.

I have a Helix Floor but I also have a number of external pedals and guitar/bass amps/cabs, etc. Today I can obviously reamp to use the external pedals (Sends/Returns) and/or external amps (1/4" Out) and then capture the external amp sound with the Helix's single Mic In. So far, so easy.

What I'd like to do is get a UAD Apollo of some kind, to use the plugins and also for the multiple Mic Ins.

But I'd still like to be able to use Helix's modeling in the following way:

a) Begin with a wet + DI recording using Helix into my DAW (Ableton Live) exactly the same as I do today...choose a Helix preset and record that + a DI version into the DAW.

b) But then re-amp the DI multiple times through my external amps (and pedals), capturing that via the Apollo Mic Ins and printing these new tracks to my DAW.

I'm not clear on the routing for this or if it's even actually possible. I've checked other threads and am aware the S/PDIF on Helix can be used to connect to S/PDIF on Apollo units that have this option but I'm not clear which should be the slave or master or even which unit should be attached to my Mac via USB (or Thunderbolt if it's the Apollo I guess).

What would the routing for something like this be? Something like:

DI track in DAW-> Helix S/PDIF Out-> Apollo S/PDIF In -> Apollo Line Out -> External Pedals -> External Amp-> (makes sound) -> Mics -> UAD Apollo Mic Ins ->.UAD S/PDIF Out -> Helix S/PDIF In -> new tracks printed into DAW?

In this case, the S/PDIF Ins/Outs on both the HElix and Apollo are connected to create a big loop...is that ok (maybe that's the way it's supposed to work but I want to make sure)?

Also, if the above would work, should it be done this way (with the Helix connected to the Mac/DAW via USB) or the reverse way (with the Apollo connected to the Mac/DAW via Thunderbolt 3) and for what reasons/justification (i.e. would it affect latency, would it affect use of Apollo plugins, would it affect the ability to even do the initial wet + DI tracks with Helix as step 1?). I'm not clear on this at all.

One final requirement is that I can also record vocals directly into the Apollo Mic Ins...I don't think the routing with Helix would necessarily impact this but I want to make sure.

Does anyone actually use Helix w/ an Apollo in a similar way (reamping through external stuff and using the Apollo to mic that)? If so, can you share your routing in an idiot-proof way because I'm not super technical on this stuff. I really appreciate any help! Thanks in advance, Chris

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Hi,  

So I don't have an Apollo,  but I am using my Helix floor via spdif with my focusrite 8i6.  First from what I have learned the Helix cannot be changed from Master.  So you will need to set your  Apollo appropriately.    With your apollo you have your onboard processors for certain things, while with my 8i6 I actually use the Helix for monitoring with effects while tracking.  Thus I can actually route guitar vocals or bass through the Helix for effects in my headphones while tracking.  I will then record both the wet and direct DI in my DAW (Studio one) .  My headphones and studio monitors are all going through the interface.  Nothing but spdif is going through the Helix.

 

As far as signal flow I have Di into 8i6 split into to sends one out the spdif one straight into the Daw.  Then Helix processes whatever I want and back out spdif to the focusrite.  Then into a separate channel in the DAW.  This actually lets me get away with no latency monitoring with affects similar to your Apollo for even Vocals.  I will usually have the Helix plugged in via USB for running the edit software so I don't have to move to the unit. 

 

The Focusrite  Control Software is pretty amazing and is why this works.  It allows me to basically track and route stuff with no latency through the Helix and have everything sent to the DAW.  I will use the Helix preamp model, Studio compression and reverbs for vocals as I'm tracking so that it sounds more natural than just the plain DI sound.  I record the DI in the DAW so that it can be used with any plugins I want.   One of the big things is to make sure you keep track of open loops through the spdif as it will make a hell of a feedback loop.  So mute things appropriately.  

 

Hopefully this helps. 

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Thanks that does help and I really appreciate the response.
A couple quick follow up questions:

1) When you mention that Helix must be the Master, I'm not sure what that means...do you mean for clocking purposes or in terms of something else?

2) The other bit I wasn't clear on is it sounds like you have the 8i6 connected to the computer and inputting into your DAW (with the Helix just hairpinned off the 8i6 via S/PDIF)...but then you mentioned that the Helix is also connected to the computer via USB. I'm not clear on this part...are both the 8i6 and Helix connected to your computer then? I didn't know you could do this (have >1 audio interface connected at the same time).

Thanks again

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Hi, glad it was useful.

 

1)Yes for the clock source.  When I use the Helix I switch the clock source from my interface to the Helix.  My 8i6 can change, the Helix cannot.  It is always set as a Master clock source.  It works without messing with it but I figure it may keep digital issues from arising.

 

2)I only use the Helix usb to run HX Edit.  That way I can manipulate all the sounds from Helix and the routing on the patches via my computer and not actually touching the hardware. I don't have my computer recognize the Helix as an audio interface,  just my 8i6.  I was terribly disappointed in the Helix as an interface as its latency is just terribly high even at super low sample rates.  My 8i6 is like a third of its latency so I prefer to use it for everything.  Actually pretty happy with it for 300 bucks.  

 

I even use it for just noodling on the guitar as I have all my studio monitors and headphones connected to the 8i6.  I can play through the helix much like a mixing board I suppose.  Ultimately using the Helix more like a piece of studio gear wired in as an insert.

 

 

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7 hours ago, dcomara said:

2)I only use the Helix usb to run HX Edit.  That way I can manipulate all the sounds from Helix and the routing on the patches via my computer and not actually touching the hardware. I don't have my computer recognize the Helix as an audio interface,  just my 8i6.  I was terribly disappointed in the Helix as an interface as its latency is just terribly high even at super low sample rates.  My 8i6 is like a third of its latency so I prefer to use it for everything.  Actually pretty happy with it for 300 bucks.  

 

I even use it for just noodling on the guitar as I have all my studio monitors and headphones connected to the 8i6.  I can play through the helix much like a mixing board I suppose.  Ultimately using the Helix more like a piece of studio gear wired in as an insert.

 

 

 

Quick question have noticed a few pops with pod go as an interface and wondering if the 8i6 is really that much better - mostly wondering about the sound compared to the helix sound as an interface does it sound different - better worse ? thanks much

 

Appreciate any feedback you may have dont want to ditch Pod Go and find out Focusrite doesnt sound as good

 

Other than a bit of latency the sound is great in my daw using helix native and Pod Go

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dcomara can probably give better guidance but fwiw, my first interface was a Focusrite (Saffire Pro 26). I don't know about "better" but I definitely agree with dcomara that the latency is a lot worse on the Helix. It's definitely nice to have the multiple mic ins and low latency but in terms of the mic pres, I didn't notice a big difference between the Helix and Focusrite (although I never did a rigorous A/B comparison to really dive into it). I recorded a lot of my first EP with the Focusrite and was happy with it.

If you're getting pops, then I think that alone means there's a problem and you need an alternative.

I'm looking at UAD for the plugins but I don't necessarily think the basic mic pre is any better than the Focusrite.

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6 minutes ago, c_frederick said:

dcomara can probably give better guidance but fwiw, my first interface was a Focusrite (Saffire Pro 26). I don't know about "better" but I definitely agree with dcomara that the latency is a lot worse on the Helix. It's definitely nice to have the multiple mic ins and low latency but in terms of the mic pres, I didn't notice a big difference between the Helix and Focusrite (although I never did a rigorous A/B comparison to really dive into it). I recorded a lot of my first EP with the Focusrite and was happy with it.

If you're getting pops, then I think that alone means there's a problem and you need an alternative.

I'm looking at UAD for the plugins but I don't necessarily think the basic mic pre is any better than the Focusrite.

 

Thanks much  - didnt notice any pops when I had helix lt floor so not sure whats going on - I am computer savvy so tweaked the heck out of my win10 laptop to eliminate that as an issue pretty much - pops started after I sold LT Floor - same laptop being used with Pod Go

 

That said I would want a powered interface for sure - a usb powered interface wont cut it - had to pay some bills so my custom $6000 pc build had to go so going low budget at the moment

 

My Z06 corvette takes priority - $80,000 but 2 years left its mine lol

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10 minutes ago, c_frederick said:

I know nothing about the Pod Go but have you checked your buffer size? I would double check that.

Or could maybe be a clock issue(?) Good luck

 

Can you tell me about the clock what do I check ? 

 

Are you talking about 44hz vs 48hz in unit and windows - daw settings being the same ? thanks - build a pc with my eyes closed suc at this stuff

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I still would check your buffer size setting in your DAW, if you haven't done that.

I had a similar problem trying to record into an Ableton set with many tracks (high CPU load). Try increasing your buffer sample size. The larger the value, the more latency; the smaller the value, the more CPU load...so it's a tradeoff. Ableton Live has a setup process to help you configure this properly. I'm not sure about other DAWs.

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Hi,

 

I don't really have any experience with Pod Go.  I agree that pops and clicks are a matter of your CPU and computer system not handling the buffer size.  Depending on the driver and the DAW you use you need to change it to a higher sample size.  There are a ton of videos on youtube on how to change those settings for all kinds of devices.   The quality of the driver software that the manufacturer of the interface creates has a lot to do with the sample rate you can run also.  

 

As far as the focusrite 8i6 it sounds fine for my use.  The mic pre's sound fine, are pretty neutral and flat unless you activate the "air" feature which adds high end.  Better doesn't really mean much until you can actually tell the difference in sound.  I'm honest I probably can't.  I record vocals in a closet and mix on presonus monitors. 

 

The 8i6 is 300 bucks, it does what I expect for the price.  The Helix was 1500 and it is a terrible "interface" but a great hardware amp and effect sim.  They were made for different things.  Heck I had to send my Helix in for repair because the mic pre fried the first time I used it with a condenser mic.  I'm not saying any product is correct for someone else, but in my experience use the right tool for the job.  My Helix makes nice guitar amp and effect sounds.  I use it for that.   The interface works well to convert sounds to digital and stuff them into my DAW.  

 

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17 hours ago, c_frederick said:

I still would check your buffer size setting in your DAW, if you haven't done that.

I had a similar problem trying to record into an Ableton set with many tracks (high CPU load). Try increasing your buffer sample size. The larger the value, the more latency; the smaller the value, the more CPU load...so it's a tradeoff. Ableton Live has a setup process to help you configure this properly. I'm not sure about other DAWs.

 

Sorry to hijack your post my friend - happy to report asio4all did the trick - seems much better now :) yeah

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10 minutes ago, c_frederick said:

No worries, glad you found the fix.

 

Your going to kill me I cant hear youtube now with asio4all driver any thoughts on how to get that working again ? thanks

 

Also noticing driver shuts off and come back on again periodically something strange going on here

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Restarted pc opened studio one can here youtube with studio one opened but only have dry guitar - helix native is not working and thinking if I play with asio4all driver I can get helix native to work again but then loose youtube again

 

like to jam to backing tracks with youtube in the background

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23 minutes ago, c_frederick said:

Sorry, I have no experience with that driver (or Studio One).

You're probably best off starting a new thread to get more eyes on it, or maybe try here:

 

 

 

 

Thanks uninstalled it - seems asoi4all doesnt play well with sonarworks 4 - if you are not aware of this program its great not cheap but I think it was a great purchase - if your a headphone user as much has I am it makes adjustments to your specific headphones - pretty amazing difference -

 

My sennheiser hd650's sound really nice now 

 

They have a 21 day demo I bought it in 2 mins - 99$ - give it a try pretty nice stuff

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  • 1 year later...

Hi All. I'd like to find out more about the thread about connecting helix via spdif. I have an apolo and a helix with studio one but I'm really stuck in copying what I've read with regards to the routing. Any advice would be great

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