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benthere77

Helix/Go With Boss Katana 100 Mkii

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It looks like a few other people have done this with good results.  Any tips for how to get the most out of running into Boss Katana Mkii?  It looks like there are a few different approaches.

ben

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Not sure how much help I'll be, but I'll give it a go.

 

I don't have a Katana, but just read about it a bit and checked out some images.  It looks like it is engineered for other external modelers (such as Helix) and should be plug and play just using the Power Amp in.  I wouldn't personally try to mess with 4CM, probably not worth the effort and cables.

 

https://www.boss.info/us/products/katana-50_mk2/

 

Amplify Your External Gear
The Katana-50 MkII rocks as a standalone amp, but it also excels as a powered cabinet for a favorite preamp, modeler, or multi-effects unit. Connecting to the rear-panel Power Amp In jack bypasses Katana MkII's preamp and effects, letting you tap straight into the Tube Logic power section, complete with grab-and-go Power Control. And with BOSS Tone Studio, the input can be easily optimized for your particular gear with a high-pass filter and adjustable gain.

 

So with other modeling amplifiers I have with similar logic of plugging into power amp in or effects return to bypass the internal modeling (Line 6 Spider Valve MKii and Positive Grid Bias Head), I just use Helix full amp models (not just preamps), turn the cabs off on the Helix presets,  take a 1/4" cable from Helix left/mono out to the amp's power amp in/effects return and done.  Great sound usually.  

 

I don't know anything about the Katana's Tube Logic Power section tech and the coloring/effect that may have.  But generally, the less coloring by the amp, the better/controllable/predictable the results with a modeler.

 

Maybe someone with a Katana will chime in.  They do look like cool amps.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, roscoe5 said:

Not sure how much help I'll be, but I'll give it a go.

 

I don't have a Katana, but just read about it a bit and checked out some images.  It looks like it is engineered for other external modelers (such as Helix) and should be plug and play just using the Power Amp in.  I wouldn't personally try to mess with 4CM, probably not worth the effort and cables.

 

https://www.boss.info/us/products/katana-50_mk2/

 

Amplify Your External Gear
The Katana-50 MkII rocks as a standalone amp, but it also excels as a powered cabinet for a favorite preamp, modeler, or multi-effects unit. Connecting to the rear-panel Power Amp In jack bypasses Katana MkII's preamp and effects, letting you tap straight into the Tube Logic power section, complete with grab-and-go Power Control. And with BOSS Tone Studio, the input can be easily optimized for your particular gear with a high-pass filter and adjustable gain.

 

So with other modeling amplifiers I have with similar logic of plugging into power amp in or effects return to bypass the internal modeling (Line 6 Spider Valve MKii and Positive Grid Bias Head), I just use Helix full amp models (not just preamps), turn the cabs off on the Helix presets,  take a 1/4" cable from Helix left/mono out to the amp's power amp in/effects return and done.  Great sound usually.  

 

I don't know anything about the Katana's Tube Logic Power section tech and the coloring/effect that may have.  But generally, the less coloring by the amp, the better/controllable/predictable the results with a modeler.

 

Maybe someone with a Katana will chime in.  They do look like cool amps.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your reply! The method you describe (1/4 cable from mono to Katana preamp in) is what I have been using and the results are pretty good. I prefer it over the Headrush frfr so far, but that is probably due to my room acoustics and the extreme booming base from the HR.

 

The Katana amp itself is amazing. I'm getting better tone out of that than the GO but that's probably/hopefully because I'm still such a noob to the device.

 

I haven't tried using Tone Studio to tweak the pre amp in but that sounds promising.

 

Dumb question, but what is the difference between "full amp model" and "pre amp model plus cab"?  That sounds like the same thing to me.

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1 minute ago, benthere77 said:

...what is the difference between "full amp model" and "pre amp model plus cab"?  That sounds like the same thing to me.

 

Oh, maybe preamp and full amp model blocks are only an option in Helix. Sorry, I know nothing about Pod Go yet, other than the great videos Paul Hindmarsh has posted.

 

In Helix, you have a choice of a full amp model block, meaning both the preamp and power amp sections are modeled, or just the preamp.  You would generally use a preamp-only block if you have a tube amp you are plugging into that is going to provide the power section "color", like the Line 6 DT25/50 or really any Mesa, Marshall, etc.  If you are plugging into a guitar amp that is neutral and intended for use with modelers (Line 6 Spider Valve, PG Bias Head, Fryette Power Station, Duncan Power Stage, Katana maybe, others), then you would use the full amp model blocks generally.

 

Reading about the Katana and the Tube Logic power section, I'm guessing that the "Tube Logic" tech may be able provide some of that tube power amp feel and coloration if desired. If you can't disable it on the amp or software, you may be double-dipping on the tube-ness if using a full amp model (not just preamp model) which can be unpleasant...like too much icing on a cake.  I found it best to neutralize the amp as much as possible and let Helix or other modeler do all the work.  Personal preference and experience though.

 

Helix also has cab model blocks (and can use impulse responses / cab models).  It looks like the Katana is using a somewhat traditional guitar-type speaker and maybe not full range (not sure though), which can color a sound as well.  So using the modeler's cabinet models through a traditional guitar speaker is kind of double dipping on the coloration as well, again could be unpleasant.

 

But all this is generally easy to check with some experimenting with the modeler and A-B tests with the amp and headphones.

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On 7/14/2020 at 10:03 PM, benthere77 said:

Dumb question, but what is the difference between "full amp model" and "pre amp model plus cab"?  That sounds like the same thing to me.

 

There are no dumb questions :) 

I wish I had access to a POD Go.... I'm looking through manuals but don't see anything written out clearly. 

 

My hunch tells me that "full amp model" includes the preamp, power amp and cab, while "pre amp model plus cab" is likely just the preamp and cab, no power amp modeling. 

 

The power amp modelling has settings like "sag, bias, x-bias, etc... etc..."  

Ultimately, you will want to avoid power amp settings and a cabinet/IR if you are going into the power amp input on a Katana MK II. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

There are no dumb questions :) 

I wish I had access to a POD Go.... I'm looking through manuals but don't see anything written out clearly. 

 

My hunch tells me that "full amp model" includes the preamp, power amp and cab, while "pre amp model plus cab" is likely just the preamp and cab, no power amp modeling. 

 

The power amp modelling has settings like "sag, bias, x-bias, etc... etc..."  

Ultimately, you will want to avoid power amp settings and a cabinet/IR if you are going into the power amp input on a Katana MK II. 

 

 

 

So I'm actually using both a HeadRush frfr and a Boss Katana 100 MKii.  (But not at the same time!)

On the HR it definitely sounds like garbage if I don't select and enable a cabinet/mic, etc.   On the Katana it sounds best if I disable this.

The bottom line is that I really have a ton of experimenting and learning to do.  Most of my home-made Go tones sound pretty bad but I downloaded some created by a YouTuber and they are absolutely amazing.  Also I found a couple of free Helix downloads that fit my style and while those aren't compatible to directly import into the GO, you can open the file with a text editor and fairly easily translate that to settings on the Go.   Got a couple of very nice ones that way too.  
 

 

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3 hours ago, benthere77 said:

On the HR it definitely sounds like garbage if I don't select and enable a cabinet/mic, etc.   On the Katana it sounds best if I disable this.

 

Yeah well... the Headrush is an FRFR that will require cabinet modeling, the Katana already has a cabinet so it doesn't. Therefore your findings are exactly what I would expect. 

I'm not sure if you understood what I said earlier though... the Katana also has "power amp modeling" so IF POSSIBLE, (ie: if it's an option) just use a preamp model on the Pod Go. 

 

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First post, i've got a Helix LT which I use for home playing. I currently don't own a 'proper amp', I only have a Vox Adio Air and a set of iLoud monitor speakers. The iLouds don't do the helix justice as the speakers are too small to have that proper amp feeling. The Adio is ok but starts to fart a bit at volume. I'm considering either a Headrush 108 or a Katana MkII 100. Headrush £100 cheaper but price isnt a concern. The room I play in isn't very big and its not set up acoustically. Fortunately its positioned in the house where I can make a fair amount of noise . 

 

Which would do the job better? The Headrush or the Katana?

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I just bought a Katana to use with my Stomp, It's awesome! I plug straight into the power amp in, I tried using the preamp blocks but didn't like what I got, Tried using only an amp block and sounds sweet!! Would recomend the combo of Line 6 and Katana.

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ive seen users of katana, plugging into the acoustic sim, all eq maxed out... adjust master to taste... they claim it is better than the power amp in

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On 7/17/2020 at 7:05 AM, ChickenChaser said:

First post, i've got a Helix LT which I use for home playing. I currently don't own a 'proper amp', I only have a Vox Adio Air and a set of iLoud monitor speakers. The iLouds don't do the helix justice as the speakers are too small to have that proper amp feeling. The Adio is ok but starts to fart a bit at volume. I'm considering either a Headrush 108 or a Katana MkII 100. Headrush £100 cheaper but price isnt a concern. The room I play in isn't very big and its not set up acoustically. Fortunately its positioned in the house where I can make a fair amount of noise . 

 

Which would do the job better? The Headrush or the Katana?

 

I actually have both of these (hr108 and katana 100 mkii) and have been experimenting with them for the last couple of weeks.  I have a small room also, which makes the HeadRush 108 a little awkward but it still has some plusses.  
 

Unfortunately I can't tell you which one is the hands down winner but I will say the Katana is just an amazing amp in and of itself. Also, my Pod GO through the Katana power amp in sounds pretty comparable to the HR108 with the caveat that you can't (or maybe shouldn't?) use the Helix cab/mic/IR sims.   So when I want to use one of the Helix cab/mic sims or IRs I play through the HeadRush.  Otherwise the Katana.   

Wish I could give you more clarity but that's my experience so far.  I think part of my issue with the HR108 is that I am so accustomed to the "amp in the room" sound that hearing a "mic'ed up cab" sound still feels/sounds a little weird to me.

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On 7/16/2020 at 2:01 PM, codamedia said:

 

Yeah well... the Headrush is an FRFR that will require cabinet modeling, the Katana already has a cabinet so it doesn't. Therefore your findings are exactly what I would expect. 

I'm not sure if you understood what I said earlier though... the Katana also has "power amp modeling" so IF POSSIBLE, (ie: if it's an option) just use a preamp model on the Pod Go. 

 


I'm still not understanding it to be honest.  What I do with the Katana (power amp in option) is use a balanced cable from the Main OUt (mono) on Pod GO.  I choose all normal options for the effects chain (including "pre amp", like "US Deluxe Norm") but I disable the cab option (which is always displayed right after the amp).

Thanks for being patient with me....

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