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Bringing out the highs?


benthere77
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Trying to get that nice classic clean Fender tone dialed in and all is well except for the highs.  I can get great sounds other than the fact that anything midway up the neck or higher played on the B and high E string sounds like it's being played under water or in a closet with the door closed in another room.  I've tried various EQ and parametric EQ and global EQ adjustments and nothing seems to work. 


Any suggestions for getting bright, crisp highs?  This only seems to be a problem for the clean sound.  Anything with the moderate gain or distortion rings plenty clear on the high notes.
 

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21 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

Are you sure it's the patch and not your pickups? What are you using?

 

2 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

You might get more relevant info if you describe your setup (speakers, guitar, pickups, etc.)

 

Also, what Helix configuration? Amp/Cab/IR?

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32 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

Also, what Helix configuration? Amp/Cab/IR?

 

Based on this thread.... he's actually using POD GO, not a Helix. He came to this forum because the other one was really quiet. Can't say I blame him :) 

https://line6.com/support/topic/56650-sound-quality-frfr-vs-headphones/

 

1 hour ago, benthere77 said:

Trying to get that nice classic clean Fender tone dialed in and all is well except for the highs. 

 

Simple test..... 

  1. Make sure your global EQ on the POD GO is OFF.... 
  2. When going to your FRFR, use the normal outputs, NOT the amp out.
  3. Start with an empty preset... completely empty.
  4. Add a Fender Deluxe Vibrato Channel (probably labelled "US Deluxe VIB") amp and default cab for that amp
  5. Add a spring reverb

If that doesn't sound like a classic clean Fender tone, something is wrong in your setup, or with the unit! 

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2 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Are you sure it's the patch and not your pickups? What are you using?

 

I know that part of it is my pick ups.  I have custom '68 Fender pickups with staggered poles (stratocaster).  The poles are lower on the B and E string for sure.  I have some new pickups coming tomorrow and I'm going to see how those sound.  Maybe the Pod Go is super sensitive to the pickup height.

However, that said, I have a hard time blaming the pickups.  I'm used to playing through a modded Fender Blues Junior and the highs are crystal clear and ringing out with plenty of sustain.  The high notes also sound good on my Boss Katana.

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1 hour ago, DunedinDragon said:

You might get more relevant info if you describe your setup (speakers, guitar, pickups, etc.)

 

Good point...thanks...

Speakers, have two options and have tried both with very similar results: 1.) HeadRush 108,   2.) Boss Katana 100 Mkii into the Pre Amp In.

The sound, including highs is slightly better through the Katana.  The HeadRush is very boomy even lifted off the floor.  The acoustics of the small room I'm testing this in certainly play a part but I'm not in love with the HeadRush.  Although backing tracks sound like a full band playing in my house which is pretty cool.

 

Guitar:  Early 2000s MIM Strat with custom made Fender 1968 replica pickups (made by JM Rolph).   Note that these are staggered pole pickups with lower poles and B and E string.  Possibly part of the problem but doesn't seem to be a problem on other amps.  Maybe the Pod GO is just super sensitive to pickup height. Which would be weird.

 

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1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

 

 

Also, what Helix configuration? Amp/Cab/IR?

 

It's actually a Pod GO but according to the rep at Line 6 it's the same engine and tone database as Helix so should be similar enough for recommendations from Helix users.

See my attached pics.  I have been experimenting with two options with similar results.  These settings are for the Power Amp In to the Boss Katana 100 Mkii. Cab settings disabled since the Katana is the cab in this case.  (My other option is HeadRush 108 frfr which is already so boomy/bass-heavy that I seem to be getting closer with the Katana.  In the case of the HR108 the cab is obviously enabled.

I'm very new at this so keep that in mind.  It looks weird to me having the effects after the amp but that's what I've seen people doing in these presets I've downloaded to use as examples.  I"m using this tone for a particularly reverb heavy song (Riviera Paradise).  If the highs would ring clear and sustain I would be happy with it for this song.

 

amp.PNG

dyn_1.PNG

dyn_2.PNG

reverb.PNG

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1 hour ago, codamedia said:

 

Based on this thread.... he's actually using POD GO, not a Helix. He came to this forum because the other one was really quiet. Can't say I blame him :) 

https://line6.com/support/topic/56650-sound-quality-frfr-vs-headphones/

 

 

Simple test..... 

  1. Make sure your global EQ on the POD GO is OFF.... 
  2. When going to your FRFR, use the normal outputs, NOT the amp out.
  3. Start with an empty preset... completely empty.
  4. Add a Fender Deluxe Vibrato Channel (probably labelled "US Deluxe VIB") amp and default cab for that amp
  5. Add a spring reverb

If that doesn't sound like a classic clean Fender tone, something is wrong in your setup, or with the unit! 

 

Done...not too bad.  The cab is disabled because I'm plugged into the Power Amp In of my Boss Katana 100 MKii (which acts as the cab).  I used the '63 Spring Reverb.  Everything default.

Not terrible but honestly not as bright/crisp as my Fender Blues Junior tube amp.  My highs were a little better here but still sounded a bit choppy or muddled compared the Blues Jr.  I would think this simulation could at least match a Blues Junior (if not blow it out of the water).

 

RP_2.PNG

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11 hours ago, benthere77 said:

The cab is disabled because I'm plugged into the Power Amp In of my Boss Katana 100 MKii (which acts as the cab). 

 

I thought you were using a Headrush FRFR? Sorry about that....

Does the POD GO have "preamp only versions" of the amps? If so, try the same amp, but just the preamp version. 

 

11 hours ago, benthere77 said:

I would think this simulation could at least match a Blues Junior

 

You are running it through a Katana power amp and speaker, not the speaker in the Blues Jr. Speakers make a huge difference in tone so trying compare those two setups is not realistic. Ultimately for a proper comparison, you would want to run them through the same speaker. 

 

Even if you ran the Pod into an FRFR, that is not the sound of an "amp in the room"... it's the sound of that amp "miced up"... like it would be in a studio or live performance. Learning the difference between "amp in the room" and "miced up amp" tones is an important step to understanding modelers. 

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I keep reading about different ways to deal with the Katana's return. From what it seems, Boss is slapping a speaker in there sitting somewhere between fullrange and guitar cab. At least with the first incarnation, I can confirm this (had a Mk1 50W combo borrowed for a testride and slapped a bunch of things into it). So, it might be worth to check all available options: Preamp only, as mentioned by codamedia (if possible with the POD Go), complete amp only and amp/cab. In case the speaker is in fact voiced between a real cab and a fullrange monitor, it might help to use a sort of brighter cab/mic combo, as otherwise the highs will be cut twice.

 

As far as the Headrush 108 goes, this is known to be tending toward the boomy side of things. As a non-educated (but possibly not completely unlikely...) guess, I would suspect them to boost the low end artificially through the onboard DSP to get some more "Oomph" out of what is a pretty small and lightweight speaker. I would experiment with the lowcut of the global EQ to tame that boominess a bit. Doesn't directly affect the high end but possibly removes some mud and hence everything else will stand out a bit better.

 

Anyway, I think it'd be the best idea to get the sound right through (quality) headphones. That way you'd only deal with one component at a time.

Fwiw, I think your pickups should do the job just fine. As said, feel free to post a little DI snipplet.

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