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Can I get close to Lunatic and Chem X sounds with Helix?


Vorak666
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I'm looking to upgrade my hardware and thinking of going with Helix LT floorboard. Before making that step though I'd need to know can I get near my favorite sounds with high gain models that I use (Lunatic and Chem X) from my old Pod which are not supported anymore. Any experiences in that area? I don't want to be left with lesser gains with Helix.

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12 hours ago, Vorak666 said:

I'm looking to upgrade my hardware and thinking of going with Helix LT floorboard. Before making that step though I'd need to know can I get near my favorite sounds with high gain models that I use (Lunatic and Chem X) from my old Pod which are not supported anymore. Any experiences in that area? I don't want to be left with lesser gains with Helix.


Well, a Helix LT is sonically light years away from the old POD modellers.
 

What makes you think it would be anything less?

 

Plus, as noted in the post from “DunedinDragon”, above, the Helix can do whatever you want it to do, if you know how to do it!

 

Five years back, when the Helix first landed, there were many potential users asking things like: “Yeah, but can it Djent?”
 

Don’t see many questions like that nowadays, so I guess they must be happy djent bunnies.
 

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Any of today's upper-tier modelers can create just about any sound you want... provided that you take the time to learn how to use the unit. What you cannot expect from Helix (or anything else for that matter) is the following:

 

1) Instant gratification. Won't happen,  period. Not with factory presets, not with anything you download from Customtone, nor any of the much- touted patches that you'll find for sale from various sources. You'll find yourself editing everything... sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. There is a learning curve, particularly if you've been using a much older platform forever... and in the long run you'll be much better off learning to create the sound you want yourself, rather than trying to tailor someone else's patch to your needs. Plan on spending a significant amount of time getting your feet wet. A couple of hours on Saturday afternoon is not likely to leave you dilerious with glee about your new toy.

 

2) It won't behave like the unit you're used to... don't care what you're upgrading from, even if it's another Line 6 product. Don't assume that dialing in the same settings with the same amp model will yield the exact same tone you get from your current rig, because it won't.

 

What you're playing through (and the volume at which you're playing) also matter. A lot. Headphones, studio monitors, a larger FRFR monitor, into a "real" amp, etc etc... they're all fundamentally different, and your patches will need to be tailored accordingly.

 

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Not to beat a dead horse.....but....Helix represents a different category of modeling than what you're used to.  It presents a user-friendly interface on something that has a LOT of depth to it.  That's what gives it the versatility to precisely achieve the things you want to achieve.  Older modeling units like the POD and even units like the Spider series are much more of a "packaged" unit making it easy to accomplish decent sounds without having to understand the complexities involved in music production.  The same CAN be true of the Helix, but there's far more available to you if you're willing to leave your past behind and accept the challenge and resultant flexibility of what's available in today's high end modelers.

There are a number of technical disciplines that can be useful in deciding how you want to use the Helix.  The more you understand about live sound reinforcement techniques for live performances and studio recording techniques for studio work, the better decisions you'll be able to make about how you ultimately want to configure your Helix.  A lot of that will depend on how you personally will be using the Helix whether it be for home practice, recording, or live performance.  The Helix in NOT just a simple plug in and play kind of unit.

Many musicians in the past have been perfectly happy to have a set sound they prefer so they find an amp and effects and configure them to produce that sound in isolation.  If they play live they depend on the sound crew to take their stage sound and mix it with the rest of the band through the PA using whatever magic the sound man might employ.  That's perfectly doable with the Helix, but it's also less than optimal.  Understanding the technical aspects of 'Unity', signal levels, positioning, adjustment and routing of effects, amps and various components within a signal chain, EQ, cabinet and mic'ing techniques are all essential elements in being able to predictably produce a consistent sound both on stage and for the audience whether that be in a studio or live, all of which are things you now have completely under your control in a Helix unit.  The better understanding you have of such things, the better your Helix will serve your purposes.

Even planning workflow and production elements become disciplines that can either serve you and hamper your efforts in both recording or live performance.  This has a bearing on how you organize your presets and snapshots to adjust customize your sound and flow and dynamics of the music or the way you organize your recording or live performance process which will have an impact on how you might use the inputs and outputs of the Helix.

I bring all of this up because it's highly unlikely you'll get everything right and perfect for your situation the first time you plug in.  If you're like the vast majority of us that have been using the Helix for several years, you will grow and modify your approach over time as you learn and get better at things.

But that's why this and other forums as well as many great training videos can be of great use if you take advantage of them.

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6 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

Any of today's upper-tier modelers can create just about any sound you want... provided that you take the time to learn how to use the unit. What you cannot expect from Helix (or anything else for that matter) is the following:

 

1) Instant gratification. Won't happen,  period. Not with factory presets, not with anything you download from Customtone, nor any of the much- touted patches that you'll find for sale from various sources. You'll find yourself editing everything... sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. There is a learning curve, particularly if you've been using a much older platform forever... and in the long run you'll be much better off learning to create the sound you want yourself, rather than trying to tailor someone else's patch to your needs. Plan on spending a significant amount of time getting your feet wet. A couple of hours on Saturday afternoon is not likely to leave you dilerious with glee about your new toy.

 

2) It won't behave like the unit you're used to... don't care what you're upgrading from, even if it's another Line 6 product. Don't assume that dialing in the same settings with the same amp model will yield the exact same tone you get from your current rig, because it won't.

 

What you're playing through (and the volume at which you're playing) also matter. A lot. Headphones, studio monitors, a larger FRFR monitor, into a "real" amp, etc etc... they're all fundamentally different, and your patches will need to be tailored accordingly.

 

I appreciate your efforts Cru, but isn't this like explaining to the Chicago Gangsta why he shouldn't shoot you? Maybe a poor example but I mean, either this is common knowledge for anyone who has done their research (reading-studying-watching-learning- and then repeating this concept) 1st hand before taking the plunge, or it never will be for others that don't. FYI, no fingers pointed and no one specific in mind, just a general observation after reading decades of posts here. ; )

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Thanks for the time you guys took to answer.
So if I'm understanding correctly with Helix I *can* get to those insane level high gain distortion sounds I've had with previous amp models that now are missing from the list - meaning it's just a matter of tweaking and missing amp models is not a hard wall, is this correct understanding? If so then all it takes is effort, which is acceptable.
Also I'm assuming that I can load presets (from other users or from the company directly) while learning to cope with new environment so progress wouldn't be at standstill until getting familiar what makes the new floorboard tick, yes?

Oh and I can't find information can I step through the wah/volume pedal to make it on/off. Not sure what this is called (toe switch?). Currently working with shortboard mk2 and that feature is sadly missing -.-

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10 hours ago, Vorak666 said:

Thanks for the time you guys took to answer.
So if I'm understanding correctly with Helix I *can* get to those insane level high gain distortion sounds I've had with previous amp models that now are missing from the list - meaning it's just a matter of tweaking and missing amp models is not a hard wall, is this correct understanding? If so then all it takes is effort, which is acceptable.
Also I'm assuming that I can load presets (from other users or from the company directly) while learning to cope with new environment so progress wouldn't be at standstill until getting familiar what makes the new floorboard tick, yes?

Oh and I can't find information can I step through the wah/volume pedal to make it on/off. Not sure what this is called (toe switch?). Currently working with shortboard mk2 and that feature is sadly missing -.-

 

If you want to get an idea of what you can achieve for “those insane level high gain distortion sound”, all you need to do is check through some YouTube videos. There enough of them out there - here’s a random choice of a high gain tone from scratch!

 

Also, “Oh and I can't find information” - you could have look at the Helix Owner’s Manual for the information you cannot find!

 

https://line6.com/data/6/0a06439c975d5787c3e351aa0/application/pdf/Helix 2.0 Owners Manual - Rev D - English .pdf

 

Always a good thing to do a little research first.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Vorak,

  You can definitely get high gain sounds on LT, you'll just need to decide which amps work best for your applications.  in case this is helpful:

 

Chemical X was a Marshall SLP with the Bradshaw gain boost (AKA "Dookie") Mod.  You could try putting a boost in front of a Brit Plexi and adjust from there?

 

Lunatic was an alternative to Insane, a bit of a happy accident.  Insane based on the POD 1.0 Recto with gain added

 

Some amps that you may like that didn't exist on the previous products are Revv Gen Red & Archetype Lead.  Line 6 Badonk is an update of Big Bottom, which was a manipulated Triple Recto.

 

Hope this helps!

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Thanks. I can manually copy my Chem X as closely as I can and start tuning from there with this info you've given. However can you elaborate on the following so I can do the same with the other sound? I keep finding Mesa Boogie stuff with google on that and I'm not sure if I'm even in the right alley, can't find owners manual even for Pod 1.0 to verify what amp models were there...

 

On 7/28/2020 at 3:33 AM, AParedes said:

 

Insane based on the POD 1.0 Recto with gain added

 



I'll be sure to check those other recommendations you've hinted at after I get my hands on the Helix LT!

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7 hours ago, Vorak666 said:

I'll be sure to check those other recommendations you've hinted at after I get my hands on the Helix LT!


You don’t have to wait - download the demo version of Helix Native and load it into your DAW (or download a freebie demo version of something like Reaper). The demo is good for 15 days and has all the same amps, cabs and fx as the hardware. 
 

For the Lunatic amp, which was a variant of the old POD Insane model, you could try out the Line 6 Fatality which is also based on a seriously modified Mesa Rectifier. Also the Cali Rectifire is modelled from a Mesa/Boogie Dual Retifier.

 

Read more about the various models from this link:

 

https://helixhelp.com/models/
 

Hope this helps/makes sense

 

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On 7/24/2020 at 7:31 AM, datacommando said:


Well, a Helix LT is sonically light years away from the old POD modellers.
 

What makes you think it would be anything less?

 

Plus, as noted in the post from “DunedinDragon”, above, the Helix can do whatever you want it to do, if you know how to do it!

 

Five years back, when the Helix first landed, there were many potential users asking things like: “Yeah, but can it Djent?”
 

Don’t see many questions like that nowadays, so I guess they must be happy djent bunnies.
 

 

Djentlemen start your engines!

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