MetalBatman Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Hello, I would like to be able to put a 12" FRFR speaker into my guitar cabinet and take out the 16 Ohm speaker in there. I have heard about the Celestion F12-X200. I have read a bit about the Eminence BETA-12cx and the Delta 12A. There is something called the the box Speaker 12-280/8-A from Germany and also the Kemper Kone (which I can't get here). Are there are others I should know about? Which of those would you get? I know it's subjective but maybe there is something recommend for a Helix Stomp that people get on with well. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 I think it would be a lot simpler to just get a decent powered speaker. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by putting a full range speaker in a guitar cab. I mean, it will extend the high frequency range of the cab but it certainly will not have a flat response. As a guitar cabinet, it is designed to accentuate certain portions of the frequency band. This approach is anathema to the requirements of Full Range, Flat Response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalBatman Posted August 22, 2020 Author Share Posted August 22, 2020 I have a powered FRFR. Headrush. I have some nice custom cabs basically. This is what I am talking about doing... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, hideout said: I think it would be a lot simpler to just get a decent powered speaker. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by putting a full range speaker in a guitar cab. I mean, it will extend the high frequency range of the cab but it certainly will not have a flat response. As a guitar cabinet, it is designed to accentuate certain portions of the frequency band. This approach is anathema to the requirements of Full Range, Flat Response. I think the idea of this isn't necessarily (if at all) to get a true FRFR sound but rather being able to make use of patches created under FRFR conditions (through studio monitors, headphones, standard FRFR monitors) but at the same time sort of "inject" a certain guitar cab alike behaviour to them, whatever that might be (directivity, the way the cab resonates, the way it creates reflections, etc.). Gotta say that I find this to be an interesting or valid idea/approach (probably not for me, though, I'm absolutely happy with standard FRFR monitors). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePod Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 I have a 4x12 loaded with four FX12-200s. I love it. Gives me lots of options to play with IRs and the stock cabs. I say go for it. I've been happy with my choice. Certainly not the cheapest way to amplify but I wanted a 4x12 and also want to have flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 1 hour ago, ThePod said: I have a 4x12 loaded with four FX12-200s. I love it. Gives me lots of options to play with IRs and the stock cabs. I say go for it. I've been happy with my choice. Certainly not the cheapest way to amplify but I wanted a 4x12 and also want to have flexibility. Out of interest: When playing through that, does it feel more like a guitar cab or like a large FRFR monitor - or like a mixture of both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 On 8/22/2020 at 11:41 AM, MetalBatman said: I have heard about the Celestion F12-X200. I have read a bit about the Eminence BETA-12cx and the Delta 12A. There is something called the the box Speaker 12-280/8-A from Germany and also the Kemper Kone (which I can't get here). Are there are others I should know about? Which of those would you get? Keep in mind that the BETA-12cx still needs a horn. It's "horn ready" but doesn't come with one so there is still more research to do. Eminence also makes the BETA-12LTA which is ready to go for your needs. I used to run the BETA-12LTA in a Peavey Bandit and just plugged my Helix into the the power amp input. It worked great as a pseudo FRFR, and felt a lot like a normal guitar amp. The only reason I am not still running that setup is because it was stolen earlier this year.... I replaced it with a more standard FRFR setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePod Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 40 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said: Out of interest: When playing through that, does it feel more like a guitar cab or like a large FRFR monitor - or like a mixture of both? It feels just like a cab. The most flexible cab you could have. The other guitarist in my has a cab loaded with g12t-75s and we go toe to toe with each other and move the same amount of air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalBatman Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 7 hours ago, codamedia said: Keep in mind that the BETA-12cx still needs a horn. It's "horn ready" but doesn't come with one so there is still more research to do. Eminence also makes the BETA-12LTA which is ready to go for your needs. I used to run the BETA-12LTA in a Peavey Bandit and just plugged my Helix into the the power amp input. It worked great as a pseudo FRFR, and felt a lot like a normal guitar amp. The only reason I am not still running that setup is because it was stolen earlier this year.... I replaced it with a more standard FRFR setup. I take it that I don't need to use a power amp in addition to the Helix to get there? Thanks everyone for the feedback so far. I know this is all cutting edge stuff as a few years ago the answer was generally 'no' but it seems things are changing up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 8 hours ago, codamedia said: I used to run the BETA-12LTA in a Peavey Bandit and just plugged my Helix into the the power amp input. It worked great as a pseudo FRFR, and felt a lot like a normal guitar amp. That was kind of my idea for a while, getting a rather inexpensive solid state amp, replacing the speaker and just using the power amp section. Should be a pretty cheap (and compact) option, too. It's just that most newer solid state guitar amps actually try to mimic the behaviour of a tube power amp to a certain extent, which you likely don't want. But then, with the decade old design of a Bandit you're probably comparatively safe... Quote The only reason I am not still running that setup is because it was stolen earlier this year.... Imagine the looks of that t**t when he/she checks out the glorious sound of the internal preamp through that speaker. Fizzy heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 46 minutes ago, MetalBatman said: I take it that I don't need to use a power amp in addition to the Helix to get there? Well, in case you abuse a guitar combo for such tasks, no. In all other cases, you need something to amplify the Helix, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 3 hours ago, SaschaFranck said: Imagine the looks of that t**t when he/she checks out the glorious sound of the internal preamp through that speaker. Fizzy heaven. Exactly.... It was the only thing that made me chuckle over getting it stolen. 4 hours ago, MetalBatman said: I take it that I don't need to use a power amp in addition to the Helix to get there? In my scenario the speaker was in an old guitar amp with a power amp input.... in that case you do not need separate power. But if you are only putting a speaker in a box, yes - you still need some sort of power amp to drive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalBatman Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 Sorry I am not so clear on this. In the Helix Stomp if I select an amp, isn't that automatically using power amp emulation? So isn't it just line out from the Stomp to the input on these passive cab 12" FRFR setups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerS Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Hi You need - The Stomp incl a patch with Amp + Cab -> Power amp with a power rating for the application (less then 200w) -> The passive cab. The Stomp can not drive a passive speaker. Sorry if i missunderstod your question. Two other questions - Anyone tried the Celestion F12-X200 with an accustic guitar? If so, how did it sound? - What kind of horn/difuser is needed to spred the hi fq's from the speaker? Have tried to find info without any luck... /Per Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou-kash Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 6 hours ago, MetalBatman said: In the Helix Stomp if I select an amp, isn't that automatically using power amp emulation? It emulates the sound character of a given amp. There's no actual amplification of the signal. Technically, the HX Stomp is an equivalent of a D.I. box. It's got ballanced outputs that are switchable between Instrument and Line output signal. You need to plug it into a real amplifier, or an active speaker, or you can plug it directly into a mixing desk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 10 hours ago, PerS said: - What kind of horn/difuser is needed to spred the hi fq's from the speaker? Have tried to find info without any luck... Why would you need any? I mean, this thing is meant to replace a standard guitar speaker in a standard guitar cab. So you just do that and be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantracy Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 thank you for this information! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalBatman Posted August 25, 2020 Author Share Posted August 25, 2020 Can anyone recommend a power amp for this pathway? Preferably something just as manageable as the Helix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 hour ago, MetalBatman said: Can anyone recommend a power amp for this pathway? Preferably something just as manageable as the Helix. I think a Duncan Powerstage would be a nice choice, they're very compact and may even fit onto a pedalboard. They're available in mono as 170 and 200 watt models (the latter also featuring a cab sim, so you can run preamps into it). There's a 700W rack version, t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalBatman Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 That sounds good. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePod Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 On 8/25/2020 at 9:32 AM, SaschaFranck said: I think a Duncan Powerstage would be a nice choice, they're very compact and may even fit onto a pedalboard. They're available in mono as 170 and 200 watt models (the latter also featuring a cab sim, so you can run preamps into it). There's a 700W rack version, t I have the Powerstage 700. Loud as hell. Nice and clear. If were available at the time I would have chosen the 200 watt version. But the 700 works like a champ and is nice and small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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