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ACinemaStare

Helix Floor Sound Quality Question

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I’ve had my Helix Floor for about 2 weeks now. While I like it I’ve found that all the presets and even ones I’ve created or downloaded all sound a little honky and not open enough like they are compressed and lack any highs or treble. I am listening through my computer through Logic and am using a Monster cable. I have read some about the Global EQ although that doesn’t really fix anything yet. Any suggestions?

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17 minutes ago, ACinemaStare said:

I’ve had my Helix Floor for about 2 weeks now. While I like it I’ve found that all the presets and even ones I’ve created or downloaded all sound a little honky and not open enough like they are compressed and lack any highs or treble. I am listening through my computer through Logic and am using a Monster cable. I have read some about the Global EQ although that doesn’t really fix anything yet. Any suggestions?

 

Please elaborate on how you're exactly listening to the Helix. "Through Logic" seems to suggest you're using software monitoring - which you should defenitely avoid as it will create a doubled signal coming out a little later than the direct signal from the Helix (due to latency caused by using the Helix as an audio interface). By default all patches work on their own, so you can listen to them without routing them through Logic. If you want to record them, pull the channels fader in Logic down or deactivate software monitoring entirely.

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Thanks. Yeah. I am listening to the Helix through Logic for recording so I have Logic on with the Helix. Even with Logic off I'm notice that just sounds a bit honky is all. Was wondering if that was a common issue or not. Seems like it's missing a lot in the high ends.

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When you say “through your computer”, what speakers are you using?

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3 hours ago, phil_m said:

When you say “through your computer”, what speakers are you using?

I am plugging my headphones into the Helix. I don't have studio monitors. I have the output and input in Logic as the Helix for sound.  Wondering if monitors would make a difference at all.

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What make and model headphones are you using?

 

A decent set of quality powered Studio Monitors would almost certainly make a massive difference.

 

 

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2 hours ago, ACinemaStare said:

I am plugging my headphones into the Helix. I don't have studio monitors. I have the output and input in Logic as the Helix for sound.  Wondering if monitors would make a difference at all.

 

For now, we should not discuss about proper monitoring speakers and/or headphones but just about how you listen to your Helix. As said, the "through Logic" thing was making me wonder. What about the Helix' sound when you don't start Logic? Is it the same?

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3 hours ago, ACinemaStare said:

I am plugging my headphones into the Helix. I don't have studio monitors. I have the output and input in Logic as the Helix for sound.  Wondering if monitors would make a difference at all.

THIS^^^^^^^^^ is exactly what is confusing everyone.  If you have your headphones plugged into the Helix, then why in the world is Logic even in the picture?  It's not necessary in any way as you can clearly listen to what you're playing without it.  And without knowing what kind of headphones you're using none of this is meaningful.

You have a premium quality modeler, so you need to be listening to is with some kind of premium quality output system if you want to hear the results accurately.

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13 hours ago, ACinemaStare said:

I’ve had my Helix Floor for about 2 weeks now. While I like it I’ve found that all the presets and even ones I’ve created or downloaded all sound a little honky and not open enough like they are compressed and lack any highs or treble. I am listening through my computer through Logic and am using a Monster cable. I have read some about the Global EQ although that doesn’t really fix anything yet. Any suggestions?

I'm currently in the middle of testing the Hx Stomp for myself.

Let me start with stating that the amp models are very accurate. I've tested several ones against Fractal amp models and some real amps. The amps are not the issue.


I've also compared the cab models against those of my BluGuitar BluBox (an excellent IR speaker emulator) and found that the Hx Stomp cabs lack air  (high frequency content) and overly pronounce certain frequencies depending on the mics one uses. It's pretty hard to get rid of that baked in mic sound.
That said: in a mix that might actually be the sound you're after. Also be aware of the Fletcher Munson Effect (listening at different volumes to the same source material sounds dramatically different): Dull and mid heavy might at low volumes might sound just right at stage volumes.

 

My conclusions have been gathered used Neuman KH120A studio monitors and Beyerdynamics DT770 headphones.

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15 minutes ago, Schmalle said:

I've also compared the cab models against those of my BluGuitar BluBox (an excellent IR speaker emulator) and found that the Hx Stomp cabs lack air 

 

You could just snag IRs from the BluBox and use them inside the Stomp.

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Yes, that's possible by recording a sweep or an impulse. But I will stay away from sharing these since Thomas Blug took great effort to craft these impulses.
I might start a thread in this forum with audio clips for comparison. I could also document my attempts to tweak the HxStomps stock cabs with eq to match one or two of the BluBox cabs. Also the mic position knob on it is very musical and effective in dialing in the right amout of high frequency content. I could investigate (measure) how to replicate that in the HxStomp, too.
Let me know if that would be of any interest to you guys!
 

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1 hour ago, Schmalle said:

...found that the Hx Stomp cabs lack air  (high frequency content) and overly pronounce certain frequencies depending on the mics one uses. It's pretty hard to get rid of that baked in mic sound.

 

That's kind of the whole point, isn't it?  the Miked tone of the cab SHOULD be different for each different mic, and if you choose a ribbon then it's super dark just like the real thing, if you choose a large condensor then it has a huge peak in the 6kHz to 10kHz range, and if you choose a Dynamic it's more middy with a peak around 6kHz and misses some of the high highs.  That's how it sounds to me, and that matches what I found when googling about each of the mics in question.

 

I think IR files might be interesting to try - I haven't tried them myself yet.  Seems most reviewers find that is the best way to level the helix, axefx and kemper, so maybe the cabs that come with the helix products are kind of different from the ones that come with those other companies devices?  I am just guessing.

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6 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

THIS^^^^^^^^^ is exactly what is confusing everyone.  If you have your headphones plugged into the Helix, then why in the world is Logic even in the picture?  It's not necessary in any way as you can clearly listen to what you're playing without it.  And without knowing what kind of headphones you're using none of this is meaningful.

You have a premium quality modeler, so you need to be listening to is with some kind of premium quality output system if you want to hear the results accurately.

I use Logic to record so that' s why I have that running. I don't have it running all the time and the majority of the time I am only listening through my headphones plugged directly into the Helix. I do notice a little bit of improvement. I bought some Sennheiser HD 300 Pro headphones so I've been listening on those.

I primarily play a lot of ambient or heavy music and the Jazz Chorus mod is awesome. I've just noticed on the Friedman or Ubershall mods those seem a little overly honky to me although reducing 125 and 250 in an eq has improved that. I understand that not everything is going to sound exactly like I'm hearing when I watch other's YouTube videos. 

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On 8/27/2020 at 8:15 AM, ACinemaStare said:

I use Logic to record so that' s why I have that running. I don't have it running all the time and the majority of the time I am only listening through my headphones plugged directly into the Helix. I do notice a little bit of improvement. I bought some Sennheiser HD 300 Pro headphones so I've been listening on those.

I primarily play a lot of ambient or heavy music and the Jazz Chorus mod is awesome. I've just noticed on the Friedman or Ubershall mods those seem a little overly honky to me although reducing 125 and 250 in an eq has improved that. I understand that not everything is going to sound exactly like I'm hearing when I watch other's YouTube videos. 

You're probably already aware, but all of the Helix cabs have a high and low cut applied by default. For people using the Helix at stage volumes, that's probably a good thing, but for direct recording or playing through headphones, it isn't always ideal. Go to the cab settings and disable those cuts, if you haven't already. The default high cut does indeed remove a lot of the high freq content. Lastly, setting the mic distance further away can reduce 'honkiness'. Try the other mic options, too. I'm of the position that you can get pretty much any sound you want out of Helix's cabs once you learn how to use them.

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I haven't read everything in here and I see you don't have Logic running all the time but are you getting the audio into Logic using the Helix's USB? If you are, could you be monitoring both the computer and Helix at the same time? If that's the case, you might be monitoring the Helix's signal through both the computer and the Helix at the same time due to the USB connection. The two signals would be out of phase due to the computer's latency and could cause all kinds of things. Try unplugging the USB cable and playing  if what I'm saying is true. Just a stab in the dark.

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When using Logic, or any DAW with Helix, you have to be aware of how you are monitoring the result. If you are using Helix as your audio interface, and your headphones are plugged into Helix, then you are like using Helix out 1/2 as the audio output device in Logic. You are probably also using Helix as a direct monitor - the output block in Helix is also going directly to the headphone output. If Logic is also doing input monitoring, either because you have turned input monitoring on, or are using auto input monitoring on record enable, you'll be hearing Helix twice with the latency delay in your headphones. This won't sound good. Either use direct monitoring or software monitoring, but never both.

 

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