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Amp out - no effects after cab in signal chain??


Northsea
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Hi there,

 

Just received my POD GO today but as I don’t have a PA or full response speakers at home I’ve turned off the IR in the global settings and ran it into the effects return of my amps and...I’m very disappointed to say the least

 

 None of the effects like modulation, delay or reverb work. At all. They are in the chain but with IR off they cannot be engaged or disengaged. Also it sounds nothing like the headphones it sounds like a cheap Zoom from 1997. Horrible. 

 

I’ve established that if I move the cab to the very last thing in the chain then I can access the effects but this messes up the dynamics (to my ears) of a lot of the presets and I will have to go through and manually change this and save each preset individually or the changes will be lost when I switch preset. What’s that all about? I thought the amp out should mirror the main out (minus the IR) but far from it.

 

i was planning to use it to replace my tube amp and stomp box pedal board and run it into the desk from the main outs (with IR) and into an amp onstage (minus IR) for monitoring and a bit of backline thump and need to hear the effects on stage same as front of house. I thought that was the whole point of the amp out and had really high hopes for it but it’s back in the box ready for return. 

 

The amp out is in my experience pretty rubbish and I would think a lot of home users would have this problem. 

 

Any views or advice? 

 

Cheers guys

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The signal for the Amp Out is tapped off after amp block but before the cab/IR block. So if you want to have all of your effects sent to it, you would need to make the cab/IR block the last block in your chain. The main thing this means is that you won’t be able to take advantage of stereo effects, but if you aren’t sending a stereo signal to the FOH (which you probably shouldn’t do, most of the time), it’s not a big deal.

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Yes I just don’t see why that isn’t the default then? Why not just have the cab as the last block in that case on all presets? The amp out should of course have the effects and mirror the main out (minus ir) otherwise what’s the point? I just can’t get it to sound decent regardless.

 

 In the end I’ve plugged the amp out into an amps input and taken down all the eq’s, sounds much better than the amp out into the effects loop

return (which it shouldn’t be unless the pod needs amp preamp to sound good) but the tone changes when I use different amps. I’m really trying to get on with it and make it work for me as it could really help me at gigs but it’s just not working out. 

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I think it's not the default because it would defeat any stereo path by design, as reported, and also not everyone needs amp-out.

It would be nice indeed that the unit only bypasses the IR/cab while preserving anything else (before and after the signal chain) but I can understand that probably is not feasible.

I know that many people use amp-out on a power cab or fx return, and get nice results. Of course is not easy to mimic the sound of main out (with its amp and cab sim, maybe changing between patches) to the sound you get when going to a real power amp and cab; the eq involved are totally different, at least you should set your amp/cab sim to something similar of your real amp type.

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Thanks but if it’s not a good idea to run stereo effects FOH then why is the default configured for that rather than making that an option you can configure if you need it? Or set anything plugged into the amp out output to not have IR by default and just bypass the cab block for that amp out signal path, leaving the rest of the chain accessible (but retain the ability to turn on IR for amp out output in global settings if required but I can’t think of a scenario you would want to)?

 

Also when talking about signal path when you plug headphones in it should mute the other outputs but it doesn’t so if I plug headphones in the amp is still blaring away unless I turn the volume down on the external unit be it amp or PA or whatever. Most units with headphones out understand that if you plug headphones in you don’t want the main outs active also at the same time (kinda defeats the object!)

 

And also the main volume control doesn’t work with amp out. Seems to be disabled? So have to use the amp volume to control it???

 

Anyway essentially it’s not an amp out it’s a pre-amp out and in old money amp wise anything “in the loop” post preamp but pre power amp is not accessible, just anything you put in front of the amp, unless you reconfigure manually. 

 

Ive just experimented again and if I plug the amp out into the front of the amp and turn all the eq down it sounds great. Like really great! Love it! But when I plug it into the amp return it sounds like total crap. Like a zoom from 1997. Massive difference to quality of tone. Something seriously wrong here....

 

I really like it design and interface wise so I’ll keep experimenting but I think I might have a faulty unit as it’s locked up twice (no response to any inputs) and had a bank of blank presets in the 20’s range that then all of a sudden appeared. It’s the latest firmware version so I’ll talk to the store. I really hope my unit is faulty...

 

I would be really interested if others could try taking the amp out into their amp return and then same setting into the front of the amp clean channel no EQ and see what their opinion is? There is a big drop in quality of tone for me through the return input (amp is nothing fancy just an orange crush pro 120 solid state head on clean channel into 1x12 orange cab with vintage 30).

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Well, the pod go has stereo out, plus, a good number of people won't use it live but connected via usb or audio interface, so stereo does have its purposes.

For the headphone thing, again, shutting down main outs could not be everyone's ideal option. It's most reasonable leave it as it is now, because anyway you can turn the volume down, disconnect the cables, bypass from the device you are connected...It would be nice to have an option about that at least, I agree.

And yes the volume control doesn't work with amp out because it's understood you are using an amp so you use that volume. It is true that this might not be the best option giving that some amps don't have a volume control if you enter in fx return loop.

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Yes mate I get all that but it looks like it’s designed for live/gigging, not sitting on a desk in a studio or permanently connected to a Digital audio workstation and all I’m saying is I’ve found limitations for that use for my application. Just my humble opinion as a gigging musician. If the amp out was sorted to actually accurately replicate the main out (minus IR) and I could control the amp volume from the unit same as FOH is would be perfect. 

 

Anyway I’ve changed all the presets to have the cab at the end of the chain and am getting something useable now out of the amp by using the main out (not the amp out) into the effects return with cab off (but it still sounds nothing like through a Full frequency cab and bizarrely still sounds much...like MUCH better going into the front of the amp in guitar input with eq down on clean channel..solid state amp!) and know I can’t gig it like that as I’ll need the main outs with IR for FOH. All a bit of a shame really because I know it’s in there but the amp out is a main feature for home use and again in my humble opinion it’s letting it down. I’m convinced the main out is better than the amp out (minus IR on both). Maybe I’m just wrong or expecting too much. Wouldn’t be the first time! 

 

Anyway thanks for the responses. Still not convinced this is for me. I play a MESA Rectifier rig with expansive stomp box pedal board live but hoped this would save my back and simplify things but it’s no where near. Not even close. Not thru an amp anyway. But trying to work with it. 

 

 

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AFAIK the amp out is just a split of the main out, so it should behave just like the main out (minus the cab if you set it like that). check also the main out global setting of line or instrument, if it changes also for amp out. 

sorry if I contradict your idea but having the volume to act both amp out and foh would be a very bad idea. when you set the foh volume at sound check you don't want to mess it up, or the sound guy would yell at you... 

I agree it would be nice to have a different, separate amp out volume. But you could have a simple external box to do that, if you really need. 

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  • 5 months later...
18 hours ago, conradmarshall said:

Fairly new to this: i plug in my guitar, i caonnect my amp. Why cant i hear certain effects? (Yes they re in the chain and switched on). What to do?

 

If you are connecting your amp via the Amp Out jack, then the signal it's spilled before your cab block. So if you put some effects after the cab, you won't hear them.

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On 2/6/2021 at 10:33 PM, conradmarshall said:

Fairly new to this: i plug in my guitar, i caonnect my amp. Why cant i hear certain effects? (Yes they re in the chain and switched on). What to do?

If you are connecting to your amp from the Pod Go's "Amp" output connector, you may need to change a setting on the Pod.   Press both "page" buttons to open the settings, then open "global settings" - on the "Ins/Outs" screen ensure that "Amp Out Source" is set to "Main Out" - the alternative, "Pre Cab/IR", only sends the signal to the last effect before the virtual amp.  This is a universal setting - once set, you won't need to mess around with editing patches to make them work (and you really want to avoid doing that as it affects the stereo/mono output of the patches)

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  • 9 months later...
On 9/5/2020 at 2:18 AM, Northsea said:

Yes I just don’t see why that isn’t the default then? Why not just have the cab as the last block in that case on all presets? The amp out should of course have the effects and mirror the main out (minus ir) otherwise what’s the point? I just can’t get it to sound decent regardless.

 

 In the end I’ve plugged the amp out into an amps input and taken down all the eq’s, sounds much better than the amp out into the effects loop

return (which it shouldn’t be unless the pod needs amp preamp to sound good) but the tone changes when I use different amps. I’m really trying to get on with it and make it work for me as it could really help me at gigs but it’s just not working out. 

 

Absolutely agree with you, it is a strange design to me... anyway it is good to understand it and the stereo effects loss due to this config. 

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