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kruithof

Is it something I overlooked, or is my Helix broken?

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Netherlands sept 6th 2020

 

Hi all,

 

Issue: Guitar signal audible BUT none of the helix effects is audible anymore.

Relevant gear: Helix Floor 2.90 + Marshall JVM410JHS, 4 cable method + Midi cable.

 

Last 3 years I used Helix Floor with multiple amps. Initialy through line in, then via FX loop return, only using the amp not its pre amp and then, to include the pre amp, with 4CM. All of that always worked fine. To illiminate needing Marshall controller for selecting channels etc, I updated presets, using Instant Command from command centre, selecting Midi CC. By selecting Midi CC 16-19 (resp channel 1 to 4) + associated value (0-2) to select green/orange/red setting of that channel. Still worked fine, even after reboot of both Helix and amp.

 

Then updated each preset with 1 to 3 snapshots (typically: rythm, crunch, lead) and did full bown test. All worked fine, it allowed me to use all presets and their snapshots and controll the Marshall. Using Mode, I could even swap the helix display, to see and toggle on/off any of the effects used in each snapshot. All in all, it did exactly as I wanted.

 

But then I rebooted both Helix and Marshall. All snapshots still worked, I could still control the Marshall as intended, but NONE of the defined effects (Mod, Delay, Dist … etc) was audible anymore, were as the Helix (and Edit App) did show them as active!

 

I tested (in between Helix was rebooted):

Created a new preset with only Send/Return block for 4CM and 1 effect block => result: guitar audible, effect not. I tried many.

Repeated previous without the Midi cable => result: guitar audible, effect not. I tried many.

Restored Helix backup from before the snapshot settings but with the midi controlled presets. => result: guitar audible, effect not. I tried many.

Restored Helix backup from before the Midi setup. => result: no sound at all

Reset Helix to facory settings + created preset with Send/Return block for 4CM + effect block => result: guitar audible, effect not. I tried many.

 

Is it something I overlooked, or is my Helix broken?

 

regards

Eric

 

NB I did raise a ticket, but i can not wait 3 days to get a reply, I totaly depend on the Helix for my sound.

 

Edited by kruithof
Better reflect topic

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Install HXEdit v2.92 and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS to update the FW.

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@rd2rk

 

Thanks for your feedback that I followed up on. Hence updated to v2.92 for HXEdit and FW. However to no avail, same issue still persists.

 

Helix will control Marshall through CC's as intended by using a number of presets/snapshots so defined, but apart from the dry guitar signal, none of the also defined effects in the same presets/snapshots, is audible, even though they clearly are being active. Also (de)selecting them using Mode, does not work either.

 

regards

Eric

 

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Because you said you've been successfully using 4cm for years, I didn't suggest it, but check your cabling and the integrity of the individual cables. Unless something in your Helix suddenly up and died, there's no other reason I can think of for your problem. 

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I have the suspicion that your device doesn't leave hardware bypass due to a faulty relais.

When you boot the Helix do you hear a click right before it finishes booting? And when you enter Analog Bypass Mode (hit Mode and Tap at the same time) does it click then?

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13 minutes ago, Schmalle said:

I have the suspicion that your device doesn't leave hardware bypass due to a faulty relais.

When you boot the Helix do you hear a click right before it finishes booting? And when you enter Analog Bypass Mode (hit Mode and Tap at the same time) does it click then?

 

Thinking that somehow I've missed this feature for the 3+ years I've owned my Helix Floor, I went over and pressed MODE and TAP at the same time - nothing.

Did you somehow confuse HXStomp and Helix?

On HXS, if you press the upper and lower knobs together, you get whichever Bypass Mode you've selected in Global Settings>Preferences.

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I know you have 3 years experience with 4CM, but it does sound like you've accidentally swapped like one of the FX cables and the amp in or something similar. Or is sounds like somehow the FX loop on the Marshall is disengaged. Sounds simple, but obviously that's where the troubleshooting starts....simplest to complicated. Also, you've tested with another amp right?

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7 hours ago, rd2rk said:

Did you somehow confuse HXStomp and Helix?

Yes, sorry. I don't own the big floor unit and assumed it to have Analog Bypass. That was the only explanation for the problem of the op that I could come up with.

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2 minutes ago, Schmalle said:

Yes, sorry. I don't own the big floor unit and assumed it to have Analog Bypass. That was the only explanation for the problem of the op that I could come up with.

 

No worries. It is a perplexing problem. I'm hoping that when OP solves it he'll get back to us with the solution.

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Sept 7th, 2020

 

Hi all,

 

The mystery and problem are solved. Different to the previous amps I used the 4CM on, the Marshall has a programmable serial FX loop that can be switched on/off at the front of the amp with a little button and as such, potentially, can also be effected by midi (CC 13).

Be it that switch has been set to on, ever since I started using the 4CM, this somehow must have been turned off between, when I finished configuring and testing the Midi+Snapshots and the next morning, when I found my Helix no longer sounding any of the effects in my presets. It never occurred to me that the solution, as someone suggested, could be in something this simple and obvious. I never changed any of the settings on the amp manually, nor the cabling, nor anything else. I have only been fiddling with the helix presets/snapshot/midi. Therefore, I cannot think of how that FX loop switch got switched off, unless it was some weird midi thingy.

I know, I should have checked the entire chain, including the amp more thoroughly rather than focus on Helix. But I was frustrated after spending so many hours in getting midi to work (I am still getting weird results when using more than 1 Instant Command in a snapshot). Also, as said, I did not change anything on the amp side, so never considered that the problem could be hidden (in plain sight :-) there.

Meanwhile, I am blushing ear to ear with shame as I should have found this before troubling others with this. Having said that, thanks very much to all for your time, effort and advise. Hoping you will forgive me my folly.

 

Kind regards,

Eric

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6 hours ago, kruithof said:

Meanwhile, I am blushing ear to ear with shame as I should have found this before troubling others with this. Having said that, thanks very much to all for your time, effort and advise. Hoping you will forgive me my folly.

 

 

Robots are a duplicitous bunch, they'll trick ya! Glad you got it sorted.

If you need help with the MIDI stuff, don't be shy. It's kind of my specialty!

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I work with video and audio equipment and I have, more times than I care to admit, tried to hunt down a problem only to have it be just a switch. You ain't alone brother.

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21 hours ago, kruithof said:

Sept 7th, 2020

 

Hi all,

 

The mystery and problem are solved. Different to the previous amps I used the 4CM on, the Marshall has a programmable serial FX loop that can be switched on/off at the front of the amp with a little button and as such, potentially, can also be effected by midi (CC 13).

Be it that switch has been set to on, ever since I started using the 4CM, this somehow must have been turned off between, when I finished configuring and testing the Midi+Snapshots and the next morning, when I found my Helix no longer sounding any of the effects in my presets. It never occurred to me that the solution, as someone suggested, could be in something this simple and obvious. I never changed any of the settings on the amp manually, nor the cabling, nor anything else. I have only been fiddling with the helix presets/snapshot/midi. Therefore, I cannot think of how that FX loop switch got switched off, unless it was some weird midi thingy.

I know, I should have checked the entire chain, including the amp more thoroughly rather than focus on Helix. But I was frustrated after spending so many hours in getting midi to work (I am still getting weird results when using more than 1 Instant Command in a snapshot). Also, as said, I did not change anything on the amp side, so never considered that the problem could be hidden (in plain sight :-) there.

Meanwhile, I am blushing ear to ear with shame as I should have found this before troubling others with this. Having said that, thanks very much to all for your time, effort and advise. Hoping you will forgive me my folly.

 

Kind regards,

Eric

 

Glad to see you figured out the issue. You said in your OP that you connected via MIDI from the Helix to your Marshall.  Assuming you didn't manually change the Marshall's FX loop setting by accident, it is possible that the Helix generated a MIDI command that changed it. If it happens again you may want to try "Global Settings --> MIDI/Tempo --> 'MIDI PC Send' = "Off". Changing presets will no longer automatically send the attendant MIDI message.

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One of my greatest moments was a long time ago on the phone waiting on tech support because my fairly new CRT monitor had no DOS prompt showing(yes, that long ago).  While on the phone I'm fiddling around and found a knob that would stretch and shrink the screen vertically.  Yes, the DOS prompt was just stretched down off the bottom of the screen.

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1 hour ago, Lone_Poor_Boy said:

One of my greatest moments was a long time ago on the phone waiting on tech support because my fairly new CRT monitor had no DOS prompt showing(yes, that long ago).  While on the phone I'm fiddling around and found a knob that would stretch and shrink the screen vertically.  Yes, the DOS prompt was just stretched down off the bottom of the screen.

 

CRTs, green screens and DOS prompts - good times!

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I once searched for my sun glasses everywhere until I found them on my head.


Also I searched for a key that I just had but now couldn't find... until I looked in my left hand.

 

And I tweaked the tone controls on an amp until I liked the sound for some minutes. Tweaked... played... hm, not there yet... tweaked etc. When I wanted to switch off the device I realized that I tweaked a secondary disengaged amp block for the whole session.

  • Haha 1

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55 minutes ago, Schmalle said:

I once searched for my sun glasses everywhere until I found them on my head.


Also I searched for a key that I just had but now couldn't find... until I looked in my left hand.

 

And I tweaked the tone controls on an amp until I liked the sound for some minutes. Tweaked... played... hm, not there yet... tweaked etc. When I wanted to switch off the device I realized that I tweaked a secondary disengaged amp block for the whole session.

 

I've done all of those, the keys thing just yesterday!

Humans. What can ya do?

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5 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

I've done all of those, the keys thing just yesterday!

Humans. What can ya do?

Lol. Not much, I guess. But keeping that in mind might be the first step for improvement.

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Thanks again all, for your kind words and understanding, it sure helped.

I feel a little less foulish now, to the extend I think I dare leave the house again, in a few weeks :-)

 

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1 hour ago, kruithof said:

Thanks again all, for your kind words and understanding, it sure helped.

I feel a little less foulish now, to the extend I think I dare leave the house again, in a few weeks :-)

 

You wiiiild and crrrazy guy! 

 

Pushing the boundaries!

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