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littlespaceman

Pod Go with FX loop of a modelling amp

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Hi. I usually use the PG through a pair of monitors, as a home substitute to set patches for using a PA. However I also have a modelling combo (a Fender Mustang GTX50) and  I'm struggling to get my head around trying to come up with a good set up that would allow me to use the PG and amp together; and I should say that what I really want to do is make the PG my main unit, and add the Mustang to it to bump up it's capabilities a bit, rather than the other way around.

 

Part of the problem is that the Mustang (stereo) FX loop is at the end of it's signal chain; as far as I know this is unusual as on a traditional amp with an FX loop, the loop will between the pre amp and power amp stage. So the problem I want to work around is the limited number of blocks you can use in the PG (4, because for some reason EQ is a fixed block, and the looper is not global) and I want to solve this by adding some of the effects that the Mustang has built in. 

 

I'm a bit confused though; my questions are; 

 

1) if i connect the PG to the amp FX loop, am I right in thinking that the only thing that decides which is the 'master' and which is the 'slave' is which of the two (PG or amp) I have my guitar plugged in to? What I mean here is when the two are connected, what is the difference between the PG being in the amps FX loop, or the amp being in the PG's FX loop; is it just dictated by which unit I've got the guitar plugged in to?

 

2) If the Mustang FX loop is at the very end of the signal chain, then am I right in thinking;

     a) I can use the PG to expand the number of FX in the Mustang, but any of the PG FX that you would usually place BEFORE the preamp (such as distortion pedals) will probably sound rubbish, because the Mustang FX loop is at the end of the signal chain, so they will be downstream of the preamp. But PG modulation and delay should sound ok. In this example my guitar would run straight in to the Mustang input. OR...

    b) I can do things the other way around and 'expand' the number of blocks I have in the PG by putting the Mustang in the PG FX loop, and for example use Mustang distortion stomp boxes (and they should sound ok IF I set the PG FX loop to be BEFORE the PG amp/cab blocks) In this example my guitar would run straight in to the PG input, and I would be using the PG amp/cab models and modulation fx.

 

3) Is this confusing situation a generic problem if you are trying to use a multi FX unit with a  modelling multi FX amp - because the assumption is that most of the FX you will use will come from the amp itself (And if the FX loop is at the very end of the signal chain, is Fender assuming you don't need more distortion, only more delays etc)?

 

4) Would the 4 cable method overcome this problem? (I'm not super keen to use that method as it's messy, and with young children at home, too many cables lying around = more risk of one of them breaking something attached to one of them!)

 

5) Would I be better with a more traditional combo with an FX loop, rather than trying to make very simple use of the Mustang, which is actually  very capable (and good sounding) amp?

 

I hope that all makes sense and hasn't confused you as much as I am! Thanks folks

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I'd say that yes the only way to mix things would be the 4 cable method. But for my ideas I won't mix different digital systems together. I would try to use pg for all my needs and then use the mustang only for power amp and speakers. This would drastically simplify things and most probably getting things to sound better. 

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Thanks for the reply; I can use the Mustang as power amp and speakers very nicely by plugging the guitar in to the PG and using the PG send to the amps return (and not plug the amps send in to the PG return) The beauty of that is that I can use both the PG looper and the Mustang looper at the same time (if I put the PG looper before the FX loop)

 

The downside though is I can't use any of the Mustang's effects to add to what the PG can do, in which case I'm starting to wonder if the Mustang is now surplus to requirements - it does sound great and is very capable but not as user friendly as the PG.

 

One thing that is really weird is if I connect the PG to both the send and returns (the amp has a stereo loop too) I can't get any sound out of the amp at all. I've proved that the amp send/return works by plugging in a different pedal in to it's FX loop and that produces sound exactly as you'd expect, but when I plug the PG in, there is no sound at all (I have checked that the PG FX return is set to 'RETURN' and not 'AUX IN'.

 

Could that be just some weird incompatibility issue between the two digital units? 

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Hi, yes I did - it was set to 'instrument' (is that what you meant?)

 

If I use the amp with another pedal I can get sound using the send/returns in mono or stereo.

If I use the PG with another pedal I can get sound using the send/returns in mono or stereo.

 

BUT

 

If I connect the send/return of the PG and the amp to each other, I can't get any sound at all; plugging cables in to the amp send and the amp return kills all sound unless you complete the send/return 'circuit' by placing a pedal in the loop. Plugging cables in to the PG send and the PG return kills all sound unless you select the FX loop block to on (in either mono or stereo depending on whether you are connected in mono or stereo) But when the two are connected together I get nothing at all, it's really odd...

 

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Quote

  b) I can do things the other way around and 'expand' the number of blocks I have in the PG by putting the Mustang in the PG FX loop, and for example use Mustang distortion stomp boxes (and they should sound ok IF I set the PG FX loop to be BEFORE the PG amp/cab blocks) In this example my guitar would run straight in to the PG input, and I would be using the PG amp/cab models and modulation fx.

What are you trying to use off the Mustang?  The Amp section is a bit pointless as it's a set block on the Go, you cannot change it to something else so it's essentially 'free'.

 

Quote

3) Is this confusing situation a generic problem if you are trying to use a multi FX unit with a  modelling multi FX amp - because the assumption is that most of the FX you will use will come from the amp itself (And if the FX loop is at the very end of the signal chain, is Fender assuming you don't need more distortion, only more delays etc)?

 

Quote

Mustang GTX also features an effects loop.The right/left FX send and right/left FX return jacks on the far right of the rear panel are for mono or stereo external effects use (see illustration below); a mono effect can be plugged into the right or left channel. Note that effects connected to these jacks are “global” (not preset-spe-cific) and will act as the last elements in the signal path.

 

Well not sure if it works exactly as it says in the manual, but if it does, that would be quite limiting...

 

A few thoughts:

4 cable method

1a)  You could use your amp's distortion as a distortion pedal / boost, plus compressor or other pre-amp effects.  You wouldn't be able to use your amp's reverb/delay/others as these would be pre PGo amp, but you could save 1-2 blocks for boost/distortion/compressor with this; effects before the Go Amp section.

1b) Use the amp's amp modeling instead of the Go, this opens up using more effects from the Mustang as if you're not using the Go's amp/cab, you'll be able to use other effects after your Mustang's...  But you wouldn't be using your Go's amp section, which would kinda defeat the point of the Go IMHO...  (here the Go would be 'last' in the chain)

 

Guitar to Go to Amp guitar in:

2) You'd get to use your full Go (without cab) 4 blocks, and then use the Mustang's for reverb/delay/phaser, etc., anything at the end.  But then you do not get to use your Mustang's amp section, which should be fine I think since the Go's should be better... 

 

Latter is probably the simplest and most practical to use.  But... The Go's reverb & other effects are really great, so you might be missing out by not using the Go's effects and instead using the Mustang's...  Anyway, I'd try to use it this way first, just use 100% of the Go and ignore your amp effects.  You could plug to Amp effects in to bypass everything.  Then just get used to the Go effects and all, and then you'll see if your 4 blocks really aren't enough for you, and you'll have a better idea of what effects you want to use at once, and then you'll be able to choose the method most optimal for your specific needs.  There's quite a few options!

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Thanks again, a very helpful reply. Overall, I agree with you, I'd like to use the Go as my main unit - after all it's the one you can sling in a bag and take anywhere, and it's more capable than the Mustang in most ways (although I do like the way that the Mustang looper is global - shame they didn't do that on the Pod Go) - and I think the amps are probably a bit better. Don't underestimate the Mustang (at least the GTX version) for tone though, IMHO it really is a great sounding amp...

 

...buuuut, as you say not using the Go's amp section kind of defeats the point of having it, so all I really want is to justify keeping the Mustang by using it to add to the number of effects the Go has (and also adding a looper that doesn't use a block within the Go's signal chain) And if that's too complicated then maybe the amp is off to eBay ;o)

 

'You could plug to Amp effects in to bypass everything'; I've tried this and it does sound great, and works well - and I can use both the Go and the Mustang loopers independently (I presume the Mustang looper must be after the FX loop, and is also global) so I think I'll probably stick with this method...

 

"Note that effects connected to these jacks are “global” (not preset-spe-cific) and will act as the last elements in the signal path.

Well not sure if it works exactly as it says in the manual, but if it does, that would be quite limiting..."; It does seem to work exactly like this, and it is a bit limiting. 

Would you agree that by designing it this way, Fender assume that you don't need extra distortion or gain and that you only might want to add external modulation effects?

 

"What are you trying to use off the Mustang?"; I think I was just in pursuit of the satisfaction I get from making something work as I think it should. And it seems to two fx loops are incompatible, so I failed in this particular quest! 

 

 

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I've tried running my PodGo through the FX Return (Amp Out from Pod) with my Flextone III and there's nothing. I've tried switching FX loop on/off. It works fine in other Combos but not my Flextone III

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9 hours ago, Arcadian_Blood said:

I've tried running my PodGo through the FX Return (Amp Out from Pod) with my Flextone III and there's nothing. I've tried switching FX loop on/off. It works fine in other Combos but not my Flextone III

@spaceatl answered in your other thread when he explained:

"You need to put a dummy plug in the guitar input of the Flextone to turn the power amp mute off. I have a 3XL...FYI, the flextone powers up with the FX Loop enabled...shortboard isn't needed...However, it is still a good idea to save the flextone patch with the loop on in case you bump a patch button."

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On 9/23/2020 at 9:41 PM, Arcadian_Blood said:

Thanks voxmann55! It worked :)

 

Glad it solved your problem, but its really @spaceatl you should thank as it was his post. Lol  

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I have a question. I bought a Pod Go presets pack online and in the important.txt file of them it say's this "The PMP presets are created in stereo, if you use them in mono some sounds may sound bad or strange."  So my question is I have my Pod Go and the Line 6 Power Cab Plus. I also have a Fender Mustang GTX100. Would I be able to use my GTX100 as a powered cab along with the Line 6 Power Cab Plus so I can hear the presets in Stereo, if yes how does one route cables correctly? Also is there some way to change the presets in the editor from stereo to mono? I'm new with Line 6 gear and learning it. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.  

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2 hours ago, C_berg1980 said:

I have a question. I bought a Pod Go presets pack online and in the important.txt file of them it say's this "The PMP presets are created in stereo, if you use them in mono some sounds may sound bad or strange."  So my question is I have my Pod Go and the Line 6 Power Cab Plus. I also have a Fender Mustang GTX100. Would I be able to use my GTX100 as a powered cab along with the Line 6 Power Cab Plus so I can hear the presets in Stereo, if yes how does one route cables correctly? Also is there some way to change the presets in the editor from stereo to mono? I'm new with Line 6 gear and learning it. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.  

 

well yes, just use your main outs, one to the powe cab and one to the fender. you would connect them to the power amp in/fx return of the amps, and make shure that whatever amp/speaker simulation on them is turned off (so that they act as pure frfr monitors), so you let the pod go do the job.

the simplest way to convert a preset to mono is to put the cab sim/IR last in the chain; doing that it would automatically convert to a mono out signal. of course you could miss something, like if the preset has ping-pong delay or stereo chorus, you wouldn't hear the stereo field sound, but usually is not a big deal.

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