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Hatman777

Reverb Models

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Hello all, so does anyOne here think that the reverb models are not up to par with the rest of the effects in the helix?

wondering if Lin6 plans to add some reverb models based on higher end  reverb pedals, I mean if they can model a rare Klon  Centuaur I’m sure they could add a few models, maybe a few models from the following link

 

https://guitar.com/guides/guide-best-reverb-effects-pedals/

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Perfectly happy with what's available - but I don't use use ambient sounds much and when I do its a texture, not the main event.

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Helix reverbs are just fine. Try actually spending time with the new ones.

 

A Klon is to a reverb as an amoeba is to a sperm whale. It's all about the maths, and how much DSP you want to commit to that GREAT reverb that most other people will think sux because it doesn't sound like the one that THEY think sounds best.

 

Welcome to virtual reality!

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If there are reverbs added, they won’t be models of existing reverb pedals. It’s not really possible to create a component-level model of a digital reverb the way it is with an analog effect.

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A Klon is to a reverb as an amoeba is to a sperm whale.

 

Where can I get this on a T-shirt in a men's medium?

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19 hours ago, phil_m said:

If there are reverbs added, they won’t be models of existing reverb pedals. It’s not really possible to create a component-level model of a digital reverb the way it is with an analog effect.


ahhh I did not know that I thought it was possible like the boss gt1000 has ported it’s top line reverb pedal into their flagship GT1000

so I figured it was possible for helix to do the same 

thank you for the info 

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There is  demoThat  shows the helix built in reverb are actually very nice  once properly tweaked 
 

cant seem to paste the direct link so I’ll use this link

 

 

 

 

 

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On 9/12/2020 at 12:59 AM, Hatman777 said:

maybe a few models from the following link


Strange, that link you posted are a list of what someone regards as the best reverbs of 2019. Surely they will all have been superseded by now. 
 

The solution to this has been mentioned many times in these forums. If you want a “shimmer verb” buy a Strymon Big Sky and stick in a Send/Return FX loop, that’s what the Send and Returns are for. Bear in mind that a box of tricks such as the Big Sky uses the equivalent of one of the Helix DSP chips to produce those reverbs. Do you think losing half of the Helix DSP power is really worth it?

 

I actually considered buying an Eventide H9 or the Strymon just for one or two effects, until a guy pointed out an item that is a big favourite of many keyboard players. The humble Zoom MS-70CDR. It does chorus, delay and reverb and more, in fact a total of 86 effects (137 in firmware update) that can link up to 6 simultaneously, for a very low price. For the couple of extra effects that I required it is perfect, when thrown in with everything else. YMMV!

 

Hope this helps/makes sense

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The HX reverbs are pretty good, but I think there is something that all of them could have added to them that would make them better.  An EQ section for the Reverb.  (if people don't like messing with it they can leave it at defaults)

 

That said I do want more flavors of HX reverbs. 5 is nice, but I would like more. 

 

I found myself liking the Ganymead (spelling) when I turn the decay down to like 1.2 - 1.7.  Make a few further adjustments.  Put it on its own parallel path with the vintage delay on the other path with most of the signal going thru the delay side of the path. The Reverb path gets an hi/low EQ after it, and then a stereo widening block after it before it merges back into the signal path.  

 

You can get great results with them, you just have to work with them, and I think an EQ added to each would be nice. (some don't even have a low/hi cut)

I just think we need more HX Reverbs period.

 

There is nothing wrong with mentioning that you want more HX reverbs for Helix... I do. (and I have a large selection of Reverb plugins) You will be told to buy something else, or be happy with what you have, but I don't give much credence to those auto-snark responses. They are very similar to "the tone is in the fingers" crap responses people get when asking about getting a specific tone.

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On 9/11/2020 at 6:59 PM, Hatman777 said:

so does anyOne here think that the reverb models are not up to par with the rest of the effects in the helix?

 

Probably not the problem.... but what firmware version are you running with your Helix? 

The reverbs on the Helix were quite anemic until the 2.6 (IIRC) update which provided a lot more control over the effect level/blend.  

 

Myself... I have no issues with the existing reverbs. I find the Legacy verbs fit what I need more than the Helix models but that's just my preference. A good hall, plate, room or spring keeps me happy. 

 

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2 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

Probably not the problem.... but what firmware version are you running with your Helix? 

The reverbs on the Helix were quite anemic until the 2.6 (IIRC) update which provided a lot more control over the effect level/blend.  

 

Myself... I have no issues with the existing reverbs. I find the Legacy verbs fit what I need more than the Helix models but that's just my preference. A good hall, plate, room or spring keeps me happy. 

 

ahh yes  im Just new to Helix Platform after more tweaking got the legacy reverbs to sound very Nice,  and Im Running 2.92 

Thanks for  the Input 

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2 hours ago, Hatman777 said:

 

ahh yes  im Just new to Helix Platform after more tweaking got the legacy reverbs to sound very Nice,  and Im Running 2.92 

Thanks for  the Input 

 

Don't forget to play around with the high cut parameter. It actually serves as a tone control, and it allows you to set how bright or dark you want the reverb tails to be.

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Whenever this topic comes up, I can't help but wonder if opinions would be different, if they'd put the 'legacy' reverbs into the same category as the HX verbs and not mentioned they were older models. Maybe I'm not much of a reverb connoisseur, but I'm puzzled by what is lacking from them... they're stereo, cover a wide range of different reverb types, and by setting the knobs correctly you can dial in just about whatever your heart desires... ?

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I would also like to see improvements to the reverb options.  I do like the Spring 63.

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19 hours ago, qwerty42 said:

Whenever this topic comes up, I can't help but wonder if opinions would be different, if they'd put the 'legacy' reverbs into the same category as the HX verbs and not mentioned they were older models. Maybe I'm not much of a reverb connoisseur, but I'm puzzled by what is lacking from them... they're stereo, cover a wide range of different reverb types, and by setting the knobs correctly you can dial in just about whatever your heart desires... ?

 

One thing about the reverbs. and this has been true for me since the POD XT. is that they don't compare to the reverbs I got in an Alesis Quadraverb circa the 1990's. Line 6 even essentially came from Alesis. They just don't sound as smooth. grainier. I can't really come up with the right words. But they were better IMHO.

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My favourites are Room, Plate and Spring 63. I tend to use 30ms Predelay, open up the HighCut and reduce the mix. Room for subtle, Plate for obvious and Spring for vintage reverb. The spring sounds great before the cab or amp.

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16 hours ago, brue58ski said:

 

One thing about the reverbs. and this has been true for me since the POD XT. is that they don't compare to the reverbs I got in an Alesis Quadraverb circa the 1990's. Line 6 even essentially came from Alesis. They just don't sound as smooth. grainier. I can't really come up with the right words. But they were better IMHO.

 

This goes to show how subjective tone is... I find the legacy reverbs to be very smooth, maybe a bit too much at the default setting of the high cut (I never tried the Quadraverb, though).

 

Some time ago I compared the legacy reverbs with my TC Hall of Fame in an effects loop. Except for the spring reverb on the HOF, which I do not like at all, I find that the HOF reverbs have very slightly more musical tails than the legacy reverbs, when set to similar level of brightness. However, the difference is very small and as I am going to downsize my pedalboard, the HOF will be the first to go. 

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On 9/11/2020 at 4:59 PM, Hatman777 said:

Hello all, so does anyOne here think that the reverb models are not up to par with the rest of the effects in the helix?

wondering if Lin6 plans to add some reverb models based on higher end  reverb pedals, I mean if they can model a rare Klon  Centuaur I’m sure they could add a few models, maybe a few models from the following link

 

https://guitar.com/guides/guide-best-reverb-effects-pedals/

 

You and everyone else that hasn't invested their identity into denying that a product they bought might have any serious downside. Yes, it's pretty common knowledge that the reverbs are less than stellar, Line6 seems to give very little lollipops about it and so a lot of users on this board, hence some of the prissy reactions.

 

The unit is otherwise great and if you can either live with bad reverbs or pair it with a better reverb unit that's sort of your business to figure that out. I have a Fractal Axe FX 3 that I used for everything and the HX stomp that's my compact rehearsal unit, for what I need it to do it does the job but definitely record anything that needs a good quality reverb with the Axe or a plugin.

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Don't find myself on Ganymede too often. Beating an old drum here but I still think the HX line could use some updated "Terran" HX versions(including mono) of the more basic reverbs like spring, plate, room, hall, etc..  It's just a product of the music I tend to play but I use the more conventional reverbs more frequently.

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On 9/11/2020 at 4:59 PM, Hatman777 said:

Hello all, so does anyOne here think that the reverb models are not up to par with the rest of the effects in the helix?

wondering if Lin6 plans to add some reverb models based on higher end  reverb pedals, I mean if they can model a rare Klon  Centuaur I’m sure they could add a few models, maybe a few models from the following link

 

https://guitar.com/guides/guide-best-reverb-effects-pedals/

The verbs are excellent.  It doesn't work the way you're talking with modeling something that are mathematically generated reverbs, which nearly all digital verbs are.

 

Reverbs aren't models - they are algorithms.  Formulas.  Math.

 

So the Line6 engineers created their reverbs from a blank slate like that (starting many many years ago in some cases, improving them over many products), and then created "stomp" reverbs out of the process that you can assign to blocks.  Each reverb type will cover certain territories, but give you stomp-style virtual knobs to turn.  In some cases, the knobs can change the reverb's effect so dramatically that you can use one reverb for crazy wash reverbs with modulation and whatever else you like, and the same reverb in a different block and have it simulate a short room tone, or a plate.  In some cases, the tone can be altered significantly (hi cut can do wonders), allowing one reverb to cover the tone of many types of reverbs.

 

They don't model the pedals in your link - they created reverb blocks that can recreate the same reverbs as those in your link, though.

 

However you might need to know what the original reverb pedal is actually doing to recreate it here.  I bet there are topics on here that describe how to simulate certain reverb tones.  I know I've seen patches available to recreate things like Devin Townsend's Ki album tones which are ethereal beautiful complex things, as well as a lot of focus on classic spring reverbs if you're into that kind of thing (I'm not).

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On 9/12/2020 at 2:44 PM, Hatman777 said:


ahhh I did not know that I thought it was possible like the boss gt1000 has ported it’s top line reverb pedal into their flagship GT1000

so I figured it was possible for helix to do the same 

thank you for the info 

Ah yea, I get where you were coming from with that now.  Yea, BOSS does that all the time.  What they are doing, because they own the product, is taking the formula verbatim and plunking it into their floorboard devices.  It's great, and works well.  Definitely a simple way to get "my pedal" sound fast if you know the original pedal.

 

Cheers

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On 9/14/2020 at 9:28 AM, brue58ski said:

 

One thing about the reverbs. and this has been true for me since the POD XT. is that they don't compare to the reverbs I got in an Alesis Quadraverb circa the 1990's. Line 6 even essentially came from Alesis. They just don't sound as smooth. grainier. I can't really come up with the right words. But they were better IMHO.

Interesting!  I always found literally the opposite, specially when I got out my quad a few years ago.  It was a false memory for me, to think the Quad sounded so amazing.  What it really sounded like was a big treble cut in the verbs to make it smoother.

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On 9/15/2020 at 2:01 AM, emagli said:

 

This goes to show how subjective tone is... I find the legacy reverbs to be very smooth, maybe a bit too much at the default setting of the high cut (I never tried the Quadraverb, though).

 

Some time ago I compared the legacy reverbs with my TC Hall of Fame in an effects loop. Except for the spring reverb on the HOF, which I do not like at all, I find that the HOF reverbs have very slightly more musical tails than the legacy reverbs, when set to similar level of brightness. However, the difference is very small and as I am going to downsize my pedalboard, the HOF will be the first to go. 

same here about the hof.  I did literally the same thing and came away thinking, well now... the HOF is amazing alright, but this sounds nearly identical.  Yea, in a studio I might add some studio verb, the software variety for an album, for certain things.  I normally do.  But I'd probably do that if I had an AXE 3 also.  Can't expect our guitar modeler to do everything as well as dedicated singular products can do it.... but it's so close that I think nearly all end listeners won't hear a difference.

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On 9/15/2020 at 4:25 PM, BlueD said:

You and everyone else that hasn't invested their identity into denying that a product they bought might have any serious downside.

 

On 9/15/2020 at 4:25 PM, BlueD said:

Line6 seems to give very little lollipops about it and so a lot of users on this board, hence some of the prissy reactions.

 

Great, you again. Haven't changed a bit, I see.

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On 9/12/2020 at 12:59 AM, Hatman777 said:

I’m sure they could add a few models


Well, you could get one of these and build your own reverb!

 

 

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