Help Using a tech 21 midi mouse with helix lt

[moonman079]

I just got a midi mouse today. I am

completely new to midi. I have my LT set up to use the up and down arrows to change presets and want to use the midi mouse to change banks up and down. How do I go about doing this? 
I’ve tried looking it up but I keep getting confused lol. I have bad eyes so after awhile reading and watching videos they are pretty much shot. Any info would greatly be appreciated.

[rd2rk]

2 hours ago, moonman079 said:

I have my LT set up to use the up and down arrows to change presets and want to use the midi mouse to change banks up and down. How do I go about doing this? 

 

You don't. The MIDI Mouse only sends Program Change (PC) messages.

If you mean changing banks the way the Up/Down arrows do, there's no command for that.

 

To change SETLISTs you need to be able to send Continuous Controller (CC) messages. The CC tells the Helix what SETLIST to go to, and then the PC selects the preset in that SETLIST. 

 

Sorry, the MIDI Mouse is the wrong tool for the job.

[moonman079]

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

 

You don't. The MIDI Mouse only sends Program Change (PC) messages.

If you mean changing banks the way the Up/Down arrows do, there's no command for that.

 

To change SETLISTs you need to be able to send Continuous Controller (CC) messages. The CC tells the Helix what SETLIST to go to, and then the PC selects the preset in that SETLIST. 

 

Sorry, the MIDI Mouse is the wrong tool for the job.

What would I need to be able to do what I want. I asked awhile back on here if the mission engineering 2 button footswitch would do it. And someone said no that I needed to get the midi mouse. Thanks for your reply.

[moonman079]

What can I control with the modi mouse? I’m a complete midi newb. So PC and CC are lost on me really. I’m wanting to use the 8 switches as stomp switches. The up and down arrows to either change preset or bank. I haven’t messed with setlists as I am strictly and at home player.

I have a clean, bluesy dirt, hard rock dirt and a metal preset up. For each of my guitars since they sound so different. I used the same 5-7 effects on any given preset OD, phase, delay, chorus, comp and rotary. Sometimes I’ll switch one out for a flange or odd ball effect. But those are my basics.

 

[rd2rk]

Well, since there's no MIDI commands to change "banks" within Setlists, you can't do what you want.

Is there something else you'd like to do?

 

You said someone in another thread told you to get a MIDI Mouse. I'm curious as to the context. Can you provide a link to that thread?

[moonman079]

3 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

Well, since there's no MIDI commands to change "banks" within Setlists, you can't do what you want.

Is there something else you'd like to do?

 

You said someone in another thread told you to get a MIDI Mouse. I'm curious as to the context. Can you provide a link to that thread?

https://line6.com/support/topic/56588-mission-engineering-tt-2-with-helix-lt/?tab=comments#comment-338857

after rereading it he said such as a midi mouse.

[rd2rk]

5 minutes ago, moonman079 said:

What can I control with the modi mouse? I’m a complete midi newb. So PC and CC are lost on me really. I’m wanting to use the 8 switches as stomp switches. The up and down arrows to either change preset or bank. I haven’t messed with setlists as I am strictly and at home player.

I have a clean, bluesy dirt, hard rock dirt and a metal preset up. For each of my guitars since they sound so different. I used the same 5-7 effects on any given preset OD, phase, delay, chorus, comp and rotary. Sometimes I’ll switch one out for a flange or odd ball effect. But those are my basics.

 

 

You should probably take the time to read the Helix manual, and maybe Google "basic MIDI". Here's the short course:

 

MIDI is a way to send specific messages to make changes to HW or SW.

There are 16 MIDI "Channels", meaning that up to 16 devices can be addressed simultaneously. A Device or SW will only respond to messages sent on it's assigned channel.

 

PC is Program Change. There's 128 possibilities, either 000-127 or 001-128. Different mfrs implement it differently.

A Program change causes a loaded program or preset or patch within a VST, modeler or synth to change to a different one.

 

CC is Continuous Controller. There's 128 possibilities, always 000-127. A CC# is usually accompanied by a VALUE, again, from 000-127. A CC message causes a specific parameter within a program/preset/patch to change. For instance, the MIDI standard controller for Volume is CC#7 (when a device or SW uses MIDI standard CCs - the Powercab 112+ Volume responds to this CC#). So, sending CC#7 with a Value of 000 is Volume OFF, 127 is Max Volume. The MIDI standard Value (using any CC#) for Toggling a parameter ON/OFF is 000 (ON) and 127 (OFF). Helix works like that. The Amplitube SW modeler uses the opposite Values by default.

 

To change a Setlist - simply the next set of 128 preset, got nothing to do with sets unless you choose to use them like that - you first send CC#32 with a Value between 0-7 to denote which Setlist - 1 thru 8 - you want to call. Following that you send (using a controller that can send consecutive messages in a single stream) the PC# of the preset you want to call.

 

The MIDI Mouse sends a PC#, say, 000. When you press the UP button it increments the PC# IN IT'S OWN MEMORY, and sends that. When you press the DOWN button it decrements that PC# and sends it. It does a couple of minor tricks to help you make larger leaps, but it's really a very basic device. Other devices can do LOTS more, and cost more, too.

 

What level of device you need depends on what you want to do, and how much you're willing to spend to do it. Oh, yeah, and how much time you're willing to put into learning how.

 

Lastly, a device or SW can only do what the designers design it to do in response to MIDI. The Helix is not designed to change banks within Setlists in response to MIDI commands, so you can't do it.

 

So, what ELSE would you like to do, and how much money and time are you willing to put into making it happen?

 

STARTING with reading the Helix manual and all the feature notes accompanying the many updates that have occurred since the manual was written. It won't be updated again until v3.0 comes out. You don't NEED to do this to make beautiful music with Helix, but if you want to to get fancy with MIDI, get out your reading glasses!

 

[rd2rk]

35 minutes ago, moonman079 said:

https://line6.com/support/topic/56588-mission-engineering-tt-2-with-helix-lt/?tab=comments#comment-338857

after rereading it he said such as a midi mouse.

 

Yeah, he was wrong.

[moonman079]

Thanks for the info. I’m going to do more reading up on midi. I’m still learning more about the helix as I use it. 

[jakama]

From  rd2rk: "PC is Program Change. There's 128 possibilities, either 000-127 or 001-128. Different mfrs implement it differently." (End Quote)

 

In the Stomp you can change the Preset numbering format to be either 000-127 or 01A-42C. I have the Midi Mouse also and it can only change between 001-128. I would be nice to have the option in the Stomp also to change the preset numbering to 001-128.

 

:-) Jan

[rd2rk]

3 hours ago, jakama said:

From  rd2rk: "PC is Program Change. There's 128 possibilities, either 000-127 or 001-128. Different mfrs implement it differently." (End Quote)

 

In the Stomp you can change the Preset numbering format to be either 000-127 or 01A-42C. I have the Midi Mouse also and it can only change between 001-128. I would be nice to have the option in the Stomp also to change the preset numbering to 001-128.

 

:-) Jan

 

Global Settings>Preferences>Preset Number

 

EDIT: Sorry, I see what you mean. By the same token, it would be nice if the MIDI Mouse could display 000-127. Have you checked the manual?

EDIT EDIT: The Stomp only goes 000-125 (42x3=126 to accommodate the hardware). Still, it would be nice if there was an industry standard for PC numbering, either 000-127 or 001-128.

[jakama]

Ahh, for a second I thought you had solved my problem :-) Yes I've checked the Midi Mouse manual and there is no way you can change the preset numbering. Now that you can change the preset numbering in the Stomp (either 000-127 OR 01A-42C) it would be nice and very convenient if you had the option to switch to 001-126 also. Perhaps in an upcoming update :-)

 

Anyway, thank you so much for your time and your reply.

 

Regards Jan