Lag in Helix Software

[Drybonz]

Using my 2020 MacBook Pro, the lag in the Helix software with the hardware plugged in is so bad it's unusable.  It's way easier and faster for me to just use the pedal to edit.

 

Is this everyone's general experience with the software?  If no... what are some tips to get mine running better?  Thanks for the help.

[phil_m]

That's not normal. You're talking about HX Edit, correct? Changes you make in HX Edit should be pretty much instantaneous on the hardware.

 

Are you using a USB hub of some sort?

[HonestOpinion]

Definitely totally abnormal. There should be no significant or for that matter even perceptible lag between making a change in HX Edit and the changes appearing on the Helix. Something is definitely wrong. Have you checked to make sure firmware and HX Edit versions match? As phil_m suggested try a different(all) USB port(s), preferably on the Macbook itself. Try a different USB cable. I would try reinstalling HX Edit if that doesn't work and make sure to check all the boxes to ensure a proper driver install.  Restarting your Macbook and the Helix is also a fine idea(probably already tried that).

[datacommando]

14 hours ago, Drybonz said:

Is this everyone's general experience with the software?

 

This is definitely a one one on me. Using HX Edit is a real time thing, whatever action you perform should appear on the hardware screen instantly.

 

As noted by "phil_m" in his comment above, avoid connecting to the hardware via a hub, plus ensure that your firmware and HX Edit version numbers are the same as noted by "HonestOpinion". Factory reset on the hardware usually blows the bugs out.

 

Can't immediately think of anything else that might be the cause of this time lag you're experiencing.

 

Weird, just plain weird.

 

[Drybonz]

Thanks for the replies, guys.  I am on 2.92, but I am actually using an Anker hub because the MacBooks these days only have USB C.  How can I get around that?

[DunedinDragon]

18 minutes ago, Drybonz said:

Thanks for the replies, guys.  I am on 2.92, but I am actually using an Anker hub because the MacBooks these days only have USB C.  How can I get around that?

Get one of these:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/USBC-USB--apple-usb-c-to-usb-adapter?mrkgadid=984185277&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gdsa&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=generic&&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=39700048800210508&lid=39700048800210508&ds_s_kwgid=58700005371980883&device=c&network=g&matchtype=b&locationid=9012391&creative=452849193008&targetid=aud-373947915097:dsa-824852042819&campaignid=6730319002&gclsrc=aw.ds&&mrkgcl=28&mrkgadid=984185277&rkg_id=0&campaigntype=dsa&campaign=aaDSA&adgroup=984185277:DSA - Product&placement=google&adpos=&creative=452849193008&device=c&matchtype=b&network=g&gclid=CjwKCAjw_sn8BRBrEiwAnUGJDui-oI0m5eN5rH9T0U-zxdRBkx1qs0T_3m1z3QQou4sFG2sP3VrlPBoCyU4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Drybonz]

I actually have one of those.  I didn't think it would be any different than the hub, but I will definitely use it next time.  Thanks for the tip.

[gunpointmetal]

You can get a USB-C to USB-B cable and bypass adapters all-together. Unless apple does something stupid that doesn’t allow that to work. 

[Drybonz]

I still get horrible lag using the Apple adapter.  Editing on the pedal is fine... seems like it must be something with the software, but nobody else says they are having this problem.  It's like 3 seconds lag or more every time I click on something.  I'm using a 2020 MacBook... everything else runs fine on it.

[HonestOpinion]

2 hours ago, Drybonz said:

I still get horrible lag using the Apple adapter.  Editing on the pedal is fine... seems like it must be something with the software, but nobody else says they are having this problem.  It's like 3 seconds lag or more every time I click on something.  I'm using a 2020 MacBook... everything else runs fine on it.

 

Have you experimented with all the available USB ports? Have you uninstalled and then reinstalled HX Edit(make sure you reinstall the version matching your firmware version)? Have you done a global reset per datacommando's suggestion?  It is easier to assist if you list off what you have already tried.

[Drybonz]

Hi... yes, I have tried all the recommendations, except a global reset... none of these things have made any difference.  I'm wondering now if the Helix software is having problems in Mac Big Sur.  I'm not having any performance problems with other software in Big Sur, but it could be this is the first.  I wish someone else, or Line 6, could confirm it doesn't work right (not just "we don't support this OS yet, but to say it actually has confirmed problems).  

 

Anyway... it looks like I am stuck editing on the pedal for now.

[phil_m]

8 minutes ago, Drybonz said:

Hi... yes, I have tried all the recommendations, except a global reset... none of these things have made any difference.  I'm wondering now if the Helix software is having problems in Mac Big Sur.  I'm not having any performance problems with other software in Big Sur, but it could be this is the first.  I wish someone else, or Line 6, could confirm it doesn't work right (not just "we don't support this OS yet, but to say it actually has confirmed problems).  

 

Anyway... it looks like I am stuck editing on the pedal for now.

 

Ah... Well, you didn't say you were using Big Sur... I wouldn't be surprised if that's the root of the problem.

[Drybonz]

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

Ah... Well, you didn't say you were using Big Sur... I wouldn't be surprised if that's the root of the problem.

 

Well, everything else is running great in Big Sur, so I assumed it was something else... again, that's why I wish someone else was able to confirm the problem.

[datacommando]

10 hours ago, Drybonz said:

Well, everything else is running great in Big Sur,

Would that “everything else” be Apple software products?
 

I have tried to avoid being an early adopter of Apple stuff, because as they tend to be a law unto themselves, generally the whole house cards comes tumbling down, and things that functioned perfectly previously, simply no longer work. Then Apple will never admit to their OS breaking other applications and just blame everyone else for not keeping pace. Looks like you had no option but to go with the flow as your 2020 MBP ships with the latest OS installed.
 

I realise this is very annoying, but I guess the problem has been introduced by the new OS. Time to have a look on the Mac forums for other stuff that no longer works, or wait for more Big Sur users to post here with the same issue. You could also take your MacBook to the Apple Store and get an opinion from their crew. That could be fun.

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

EDIT:

Not sure if this is relevant, check it out.

 

https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/07/17/apple-has-fixed-the-usb-20-connection-bug-in-catalina-but-not-in-big-sur-yet

 

and another 

 

https://setapp.com/how-to/fix-macos-big-sur-issues#usb-2-0-connection-problem

 

and yet more.

 

https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/653284

 

 

[Drybonz]

1 hour ago, datacommando said:

Would that “everything else” be Apple software products?

 

By that I meant everything that I use.  When Big Sur started there were some apps that just wouldn't load because they weren't compatible... but now everything I use is fine... and from a performance standpoint... nothing is running badly... except Helix.

 

I really don't want this to turn into a "don't use new or beta software" thread, as there are plenty of those all over the internet, but I can say that, if this is the problem I'm having (and you wouldn't know because Line 6 doesn't talk about it) I really wish they would have had the software ready, as the OS launches in a couple weeks or so.

 

*edit*  The links are for a different issue... usb 2.0 accessories crashing.

[datacommando]

4 minutes ago, Drybonz said:

but now everything I use is fine... and from a performance standpoint... nothing is running badly... except Helix.

O.K.

[phil_m]

1 hour ago, Drybonz said:

 

I really don't want this to turn into a "don't use new or beta software" thread, as there are plenty of those all over the internet, but I can say that, if this is the problem I'm having (and you wouldn't know because Line 6 doesn't talk about it) I really wish they would have had the software ready, as the OS launches in a couple weeks or so.

There’s an announcement posted at the top of every forum at the moment regarding this very issue (compatibility with OS 11).

 

[Drybonz]

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

There’s an announcement posted at the top of every forum at the moment regarding this very issue (compatibility with OS 11).

 

 

That's just a general Line 6 warning not to use a new OS.  There's no mention about whether there actually is a problem with the Helix software in Big Sur.  Line 6 would have us all using Mojave still if they had their way, just so they never had to deal with any problems... in fact, there's another stickied thread asking people to roll back to old OS software if they have problems.

 

Not trying to debate... just saying I wish someone could confirm the root of the problem through actual experience.  Thanks for all the replies.

[HonestOpinion]

On 10/26/2020 at 8:14 PM, Drybonz said:

Hi... yes, I have tried all the recommendations, except a global reset... none of these things have made any difference.  ...

 

Sorry don't have MacOS 11 to test this with. Although it could be an issue with HX Edit on OS 11 it certainly is worth taking a backup and trying the global reset unless you already tried at some point after your quoted post.

 

https://helixhelp.wordpress.com/reset-options/

[datacommando]

3 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

trying the global reset

Hi, HO

 

You may want to update your link to 

https://helixhelp.com

as Jason Shimkoski, the creator of the site, moved over to the new version of the site in April 2019.

 

As you’re aware the old site is still functioning, but no longer updated. Still an amazing resource for any Helix related queries.

 

See this post on the old site.

https://helixhelp.wordpress.com/2019/04/

 

Hope this helps

 

 

[Drybonz]

It's official now that the final version of MacOS Big Sur will be out on Thursday.  The developer beta has been available for months so that companies could get their software ready.  I'm wondering how Line 6 has used this time and if they will be ready.  

[DGGoingUphill]

I”ve been having the same issue on Big Sur. The upside is that I’ve finally gotten good at editing things on the Stomp. Hopefully Line6 will provide an update this week. 

[Drybonz]

1 hour ago, DGGoingUphill said:

I”ve been having the same issue on Big Sur. 

 

Thank you.  I'm glad someone else can confirm this.  Yes, I'm getting faster on the Stomp box as well... would be great if Line 6 were on top of this, though.    :)

[surfsup1955]

Upgraded to Big Sur today and yep, the Helix Editor is lagging, perfectly functional just slow.  I unplugged and replugged all USB devices to no avail, might try reinstalling the editor but doubt that'll fix it.  No way is this a hardware issue in the Helix so no need to reset it.  I suggest lowering caffeine intake while playing with patches until further notice. 

 

 

[surfsup1955]

Big Sur will not allow the Helix Editor to be reinstalled, thinks it's malicious software. 

[datacommando]

On 11/14/2020 at 8:17 PM, surfsup1955 said:

Big Sur will not allow the Helix Editor to be reinstalled, thinks it's malicious software. 

 

Hi,

 

There is an orange banner at the top of the page which warns against updating Mac OS to Big Sur.

 

"We recommend that you wait until Line 6 software product compatibility with macOS 11 is announced before updating to the new operating system. Compatibility is currently being tested and will be ensured in upcoming software updates."

 

I had an email a few days back from Line 6 stating the same. I also had emails from Eventide, IK Multimedia, Native instruments and a few others saying the same sort of thing., which is why I try to avoid Mac updates as soon as they come out - usually stuff stops working.

 

I realise it's no help to you at the moment , but it looks like lots of software developers are running  to catch up.

 

https://techcrunch.com/2020/11/12/macos-apps-wont-launch/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAM_qeMNUJtCuH_s65SiChdbuhXlJ1Hr3BO2A_Yz6VQefHiD6nu9FVbMHgYv9vuyVq6L2DILZTQxq1wE81EUtJgpe6nhT1ljTm9KRYwDLsO1QsGD21SKxTQQmm6BtJOTHzpsummNRnN-D7-85dyaynNdEDndVVvb9aHiDSe0mQ9uL

 

 

Edit:

prior to Big Sur there was a work around for the “malicious software” thing by simply going into the system Prefs and allowing the install to be performed. It’s documented around here somewhere or just Google it.

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by datacommando
Added info

[Drybonz]

The Big Sur beta has been available to developers for months, so that they could have their software ready when it was made available.  Line 6's expectation that people will just not use a new Mac OS so that they can not only disregard the advanced prep time they were given, but also ask people not to use what is now a current OS is absurd.  Unfortunately, and to be fair, it does seem to be the music industry standard with trash software, in general, that looks like it is from the early 2000's and updates that are constantly and absurdly overdue.

 

I guess I'm saying the banner at the top of the page asking people to avoid the current OS doesn't carry any weight.  They need to get on it.

[datacommando]

6 hours ago, Drybonz said:

The Big Sur beta has been available to developers for months

Hi,

 

It sure has been available, but from the reactions on the internet, even Apple couldn’t get it right for their own installation routines. 
 

When Apple brings out a new OS it is always the third party developers that are criticised. I really don’t get it.

 

Could be worse if you have a 128GB drive.

 

https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/dont-update-big-sur-128gb-mac-3798034/

 

or 

 

https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/fix-macos-installation-3624050/

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by datacommando
Links

[surfsup1955]

I'm not pointing fingers either way.  Both Apple and Line 6 have good products and constant challenges to evolve, however the onus is on Line 6 to make this happen for us here in our little Helix world. In the almost 4 years of ownership, they haven't failed us yet.  In the mean time, it's a good time to brush up on using the Helix's knobs and buttons again.

[surfsup1955]

19 hours ago, datacommando said:

 

Edit:

prior to Big Sur there was a work around for the “malicious software” thing by simply going into the system Prefs and allowing the install to be performed. It’s documented around here somewhere or just Google it.

 

 

 

 

That would be found in System Preferences > Safety and Security > General

 

 

[datacommando]

32 minutes ago, surfsup1955 said:

 

That would be found in System Preferences > Safety and Security > General

 

 

That’s correct, but from what I found out, the Gatekeeper issue with Big Sur was slightly different as the problem was more to do with Apple’s Servers.

Quote:

“The problem was determined to be server-related, with an issue on Apple's side preventing Apple's certificate checking function from working properly.”

 

That contains a link to appleinsider.com

[surfsup1955]

2 hours ago, datacommando said:

That’s correct, but from what I found out, the Gatekeeper issue with Big Sur was slightly different as the problem was more to do with Apple’s Servers.

Quote:

“The problem was determined to be server-related, with an issue on Apple's side preventing Apple's certificate checking function from working properly.”

 

That contains a link to appleinsider.com

 

Thanks, I was not aware of that. 

[adamsguitar]

5 hours ago, datacommando said:

When Apple brings out a new OS it is always the third party developers that are criticised. I really don’t get it.

 

That's because even small-time developers in the Apple developer program have access to beta releases of new operating systems in order to validate or ensure compatibility. The issue is one of prioritization.

 

Customers in the music space usually fall into one of two camps:

1. They don't object to waiting until long after a major update is released to upgrade and are even willing to blame Apple for the fact that a piece of proprietary software (usually using undocumented API's or using other API's poorly) doesn't work without some refactoring.
2. They want to run the latest and greatest and will just deal with the issues without meaningful pushback (it's only meaningful if it hits the pocketbook in some way)

As a result, there is little incentive for publishers like Line6, Eventide, Native Instruments, etc. to disrupt their normal development/release lifecycle to ensure day one (or day two) compatibility. Doing that requires dealing with--as you point out--a beta that is likely buggy. Since there is no financial incentive to do otherwise, they will just tell everyone not to upgrade (because evil/incompetent Apple has broken things again) while they wait for the dust to settle and work these fixes into their next release.

[datacommando]

55 minutes ago, adamsguitar said:

As a result, there is little incentive for publishers like Line6, Eventide, Native Instruments, etc. to disrupt their normal development/release lifecycle to ensure day one (or day two) compatibility.

I would guess that Line 6 have bigger things on the go at the moment. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if the call that went out for extra beta testers was tied into ironing out the wrinkles of getting the next Helix firmware to play nice with the new Apple OS. 

[Drybonz]

6 hours ago, datacommando said:

When Apple brings out a new OS it is always the third party developers that are criticised. I really don’t get it.

 

The ones that do nothing to get their software ready are certainly criticized.  Simple as that.  Nothing else to get.  I was using Big Sur since it was available to the public and the only problems I had were with the companies that weren't getting their software updated.  There were plenty that did get right on top of it and set an example for the others that did not, including Line6, which is happy for people to stay on Mojave, or even roll back to Mojave, and stay there forever.

[datacommando]

On 11/16/2020 at 6:06 PM, Drybonz said:

 

The ones that do nothing to get their software ready are certainly criticized.  Simple as that.  Nothing else to get.  I was using Big Sur since it was available to the public and the only problems I had were with the companies that weren't getting their software updated.  There were plenty that did get right on top of it and set an example for the others that did not, including Line6, which is happy for people to stay on Mojave, or even roll back to Mojave, and stay there forever.

Fine. It just seems that there was also a lot of grumbling about how Big Sur rolled out. It was hardly perfect.
 

Plus as I mentioned in a prior post, I would guess that Line 6 are busy at the moment getting ready to roll out their new firmware. Any intermediate fixes for bugs in Apple’s OS only detracts from the bigger thing. Consider the investment in making a temporary patch for HX Edit when the fully tested version is probably just over the horizon.

 

Personally, I will wait.

[surfsup1955]

18 hours ago, datacommando said:

Fine. It just seems that there was also a lot of grumbling about how Big Sur rolled out. It was hardly perfect.
 

Plus as I mentioned in a prior post, I would guess that Line 6 a busy at the moment getting ready to roll out their new firmware. Any intermediate fixes for bugs in Apple’s OS only detracts from the bigger thing. Consider the investment in making a temporary patch for HX Edit when the fully tested version is probably just over the horizon.

 

Personally, I will wait.

That’s not a great idea for L6, since the Big Sur folks wouldn’t be able to upgrade to the new Helix version.  At the moment L6 Editor and the Updater are locked out by Big Sur so any new Helix version would be unobtainable.  

[adamsguitar]

20 hours ago, surfsup1955 said:

That’s not a great idea for L6, since the Big Sur folks wouldn’t be able to upgrade to the new Helix version.  At the moment L6 Editor and the Updater are locked out by Big Sur so any new Helix version would be unobtainable.  

 

I suspect that if the 3.0 firmware entails significant changes to HX Edit or the other tools that they are planning on rolling them all out at the same time (presumably with the Big Sur fixes in them). It will likely just be a matter of downloading and installing the updated version of HX Edit to gain both Big Sur compatibility and update the firmware on the unit.

 

Total speculation, though, obviously.

[surfsup1955]

4 hours ago, adamsguitar said:

 

I suspect that if the 3.0 firmware entails significant changes to HX Edit or the other tools that they are planning on rolling them all out at the same time (presumably with the Big Sur fixes in them). It will likely just be a matter of downloading and installing the updated version of HX Edit to gain both Big Sur compatibility and update the firmware on the unit.

 

Total speculation, though, obviously.

 

I speculate there are new Helix owners coming on board every day.  Lot's of them use Mac OS and IOS DAW products and have been running Big Sur and have move into the latest's versions of those DAWs respectively.  L6 will want to get those folks healed asap.  As far as ver 3.0 goes, like all L6 updates, it'll come out when it comes out and the incompatibility issues will get fixed via parallel efforts.

[adamsguitar]

29 minutes ago, surfsup1955 said:

 

I speculate there are new Helix owners coming on board every day.  Lot's of them use Mac OS and IOS DAW products and have been running Big Sur and have move into the latest's versions of those DAWs respectively.  L6 will want to get those folks healed asap.  As far as ver 3.0 goes, like all L6 updates, it'll come out when it comes out and the incompatibility issues will get fixed via parallel efforts.

 

Your speculation is certainly just as valid as mine (and I am one of those who chose to upgrade to Big Sur even knowing that these compatibility issues exist in hopes of a relatively quick fix), but in my experience most users are not as concerned about upgrading their computer, phone, or anything else. Most don't even actively keep track of when updates come out. I would think that the size of the user base who:

1. Bought a brand new Mac that came with Big Sur preinstalled (are they doing that yet?) or have chosen to install the update intentionally
2. Just bought a Helix

Is probably pretty small. That said, if we're going to continue speculating then I think it comes down to when L6 plans to release 3.0. If it's soon, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw an update HX Edit/Updater as part of that update and not before. If it's a long way out, I would expect (or at least hope) that a patch to the current HX Edit would be forthcoming. But again, it comes down to incentive and what their cost of delay is. Big Sur only came out last week.