Difference between sound in Helix Native and Stomp

[gerryCol]

Hello I am having a dilemma and I really need to get this straightened out once and for all. This is the second time I am submitting the same issue to the line 6 community and hopefully somebody has gone through this and I can put this behind me. There is a HUGE difference (I mean Huge?) between my guitar sound when listen to my guitar in Pro Tools through Helix Native and after I transfer the EXACT file to my HX Stomp

 

 This time I was working on a Stevie Ray Patch for Cold Shot. I paid for the best patch I could find. I will list my steps to help you understand where I am at. You can imagine any DAW you like

 

1. I have finished all the Midi backing tracks in Pro Tools using the best samples and midi files. Sounds Great!

2. I imported the CD file of Cold Shot into Pro Tools.

3. I edited a loop out of Stevies Intro so it repeats.

4. I recorded exactly what Stevie Plays and made a loop out that.

5. I have both loops set to drop out separately in time so I can tweak my Helix settings, EQ, Volume, Chorus everything. ( just so you understand one bar of Stevie one bar of me looping continuously)

6. My guitar sounds almost as good. 

7. I save the patch and export to desktop.

8. I import the patch into my HX Edit and copy the patch to my HX Stomp.

9. I can see both my Native and Edit settings on two separate screens. They are IDENTICAL

10. My guitar through the HX Stomp sounds NOTHING like the way it sounds through Pro Tools.

11. Incredibly thin, no bottom....Sounds like GARBAGE. (There is nothing else on the track but the Native Plug-in)

 

There has to be something wrong.

 

I'm am listening through the same speakers 

My input levels in Pro Tools are not peaking but as hot as they should be.

 

I went through this once before and just gave up, but this time I am determined. I need to know why this is happening. And before anyone suggests that the input levels may be the culprit. 

Believe me... if you heard these two different guitar sounds you would know it's something else. It's not that patches are different, the blocks are identical, the sound is just night and day. Its awful.

There is no way the input level could make this happen. The sound in my Stomp isn't even useable as a joke and I can't figure it out.

Has anyone else encountered this IN FACT and figured the issue? If so Please help. 

Thanks 

Gerry C

 

 

[spikey]

If I understand this correctly, when you pick up a guitar and play thru your "Pro-Tools" setup it sounds better using Native than using the "very-same" patch in HX-Stomp. And HX Stomp outs are going in a channel on a mixer as Native is, set the same, yet they sound very different. Is all this correct so far?

[phil_m]

How are you getting the dry guitar track into Pro Tools?

[gerryCol]

Basically I'm plugging my strat direct into Pro Tools recording along with the track after I finish I just Loop it and tweak my levels and my settings.

I'm not too worried about my levels but my eqs and  amp and cab sounds are crucial. I'm going direct for my Strat into my Pro Tools interface. After I save my preset patch in Native I exported and imported into my a HX Stomp. Pro Tools is going into my mixing board channel 1 and 2 (no eq) directly next to iis my HX Stomp channel 3 and 4 and my stomp is brighter and harder by far than the sound  coming thru  HX Native.

[gerryCol]

2 hours ago, spikey said:

If I understand this correctly, when you pick up a guitar and play thru your "Pro-Tools" setup it sounds better using Native than using the "very-same" patch in HX-Stomp. And HX Stomp outs are going in a channel on a mixer as Native is, set the same, yet they sound very different. Is all this correct so far?

Basically I'm plugging my strat direct into Pro Tools recording along with the track after I finish I just Loop it and tweak my levels and my settings.

I'm not too worried about my levels but my eqs and  amp and cab sounds are crucial. I'm going direct for my Strat into my Pro Tools interface. After I save my preset patch in Native I exported and imported into my a HX Stomp. Pro Tools is going into my mixing board channel 1 and 2 (no eq) directly next to iis my HX Stomp channel 3 and 4 and my stomp is brighter and harder by far than the sound  coming thru  HX Native.

[phil_m]

1 hour ago, gerryCol said:

Basically I'm plugging my strat direct into Pro Tools recording along with the track after I finish I just Loop it and tweak my levels and my settings.

I'm not too worried about my levels but my eqs and  amp and cab sounds are crucial. I'm going direct for my Strat into my Pro Tools interface. After I save my preset patch in Native I exported and imported into my a HX Stomp. Pro Tools is going into my mixing board channel 1 and 2 (no eq) directly next to iis my HX Stomp channel 3 and 4 and my stomp is brighter and harder by far than the sound  coming thru  HX Native.

What sort of input are you using on your interface? Is it a high Z input?

 

Basically, you’re using two different inputs, each with their own analog circuitry, and they’re affecting the way your Strat sounds in their own ways. If you want Native and the Stomp to sound identical, they need to have the same input/dry track. The easiest way to ensure that is using the dry track from the Stomp as the source for the track(s) in Native.

[gerryCol]

Thank you, thats is a great idea. I will try it. !!

[codamedia]

15 hours ago, gerryCol said:

My input levels in Pro Tools are not peaking but as hot as they should be.

 

My bet is that your input into Pro Tools (and subsequently Native) are actually a lot hotter than the guitar input on the Stomp. 

 

Ooops... EDIT TO ADD

I see @phil_m has already provided a similar response.

Note to self, "read entire thread before piling on" :) 

[gerryCol]

EUREKA!!!!

Thank you for the advice and recommendations. It turned out you are both 100% correct. Even though I knew it could possibly be a gain issue I never realized the vital step I was missing until I broke it down. What I did was I connected a 1/4" "Y" adapter from my guitar to input 1 on Pro Tools and the other to the left input on my HX Stomp.

In Pro Tools had the Helix Native input set to "O" as well as the output.  The HX Stomp had no effects whatsoever, just a direct in and out with the input and output set to zero as well.

I had both outputs of the Stomp and Pro Tools coming into my mixer (Mackie DL1608) on channel 1 and 2 (respectively) panned left and right.

When I record enabled Pro Tools right away I saw the pro tools level was more than double the output level of The Stomp coming into channel 1 left. So I backed off the input gain on my pro tools interface until the Pro Tools output level (channel 2 right) were identical. (Now keep in mind, my input into pro tools is around 50%. Normally I would make it hotter for recording, but that's for later)

After re-recording the guitar (without raising the input gain on my interface) , I imported the Stevie Ray Preset Patch again and tweaked it to match Stevie's actual recording of Cold shot (which I got VERY VERY close.)
I exported the patch to my Stomp via HX Edit. And it sounds exactly like my patch in HX Native. 

 

As for the recording level being lower, if you want (for quality and to get the most out your converters) you can certainly raise the gain input on your pro tools interface you just need to remember to back off (quite a bit) on the input level going into HX Native.

 

I am now in the process of doing the same thing with all my Taylor Acoustic patches for my cover gig and so far everything is working like clockwork and I'm getting exactly the sound I had envisioned from the very beginning. Thank you for reminding me of something I just should have known. I just never thought the difference would be soooo dramatic.

 

In case you wanna hear it, here is the Cold Shot patch (i kept it a little cleaner) If you have a strat, just crank you rhythm pickup.

 

Thanks again.

Gerry C

Cold Shot 11-14.hlx