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So what features—if any—from Helix 3.0, will the Pod Go receive?

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I assume the poly pitch stuff is right out, including the acoustic and 12-string, so will we get a distortion and maybe the MIDI out?

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It's too bad they didn't include everything, even if the cost was that you could only run 1 effect at a time, and only with certain amps...

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1 hour ago, grdGo33 said:

It's too bad they didn't include everything, even if the cost was that you could only run 1 effect at a time, and only with certain amps...

 

Fully agree. Please take a look at the topic "DSP intensive Helix effects for POD Go" and vote for the idea :-) !

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I doubt that Pod Go will get very much or possibly even anything from Helix 3.0 but for me it already has more than enough amp models and fx. I'd just be happy with the ability to see F7/F8 in the display, the option for F7/F8 to act as patch up/ down, and naming for snap shot and multi-footswitch assignments.  It would also be great if it had just one more user fx slot. For me, that extra functionality would make Pod Go just about perfect. 

 

Pod Go Edit would also benefit from some tweaks, including the ability to fully backup all patches but in the form of editable individual patches. 

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I have both a Helix Floor and the POD Go. Don't expect the poly stuff to come over to the PG. it just can't handle it. Some of the poly stuff can't be included in the same path (think one processor per path) as an amp/cab. You have to put them on path 2 separately from path 1. PG has one processor. Without the amp/cab, you won't get far with just being able to use one effect. Move up the processor chain to something that can handle it. 

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It would be great to update the Pod Go and add:

- acoustic simulator

- 12 string effect

- Poly pitch

- Poly capo 

Add one more effect block to incorporate dual amps or effects

For me it is necessary for the Pod Go to be perfect

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1 hour ago, Yerrygp said:

 

It would be great to update the Pod Go and add:

- acoustic simulator

- 12 string effect

- Poly pitch

- Poly capo 

Add one more effect block to incorporate dual amps or effects

For me it is necessary for the Pod Go to be perfect


The acoustic simulator will probably be added, but the polyphonic effects won’t be, I’m sure. They’re simply too DSP intensive.

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I imagine that by updating the firmware of the Pod Go, the DSP can be increased. I do not need it to have the same as Helix but some of the effects that I have said. The HX Stomp had 6 blocks max and now it has 8, more amps, more effects ... and that's a DSP boost. Since it is similar to the Pod Go. Hope they add amps, effects (Acoustic simulator, 12 strings, Poly Capo, Poly pitch and stereo pan).

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56 minutes ago, Yerrygp said:

 

I imagine that by updating the firmware of the Pod Go, the DSP can be increased. I do not need it to have the same as Helix but some of the effects that I have said. The HX Stomp had 6 blocks max and now it has 8, more amps, more effects ... and that's a DSP boost. Since it is similar to the Pod Go. Hope they add amps, effects (Acoustic simulator, 12 strings, Poly Capo, Poly pitch and stereo pan).

No, DSP is a strict hardware limitation. More efficient firmware may allow one to accomplish more using the same DSP but it does not increase the DSP. In particular, the increase in the HX Stomp from 6 blocks to 8 did not increase the DSP. In fact, that point was highlighted specifically in the release notes, in red font preceded by the word “Important”.

 

Similarly, the POD Go may receive a firmware update sometime that adds amp and FX models, maybe some that are heavy DSP users. That won’t increase the DSP capacity of the POD Go. It will give you the option to use these heavy DSP models in your presets as long as you cut back on other things you might like in the preset.

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20 hours ago, Darkdogeforce said:

I hope we get some of the new amps. 

I'm always puzzled by this. Firstly, Pod Go has so many amp models already that we're already stuck for choice with option overload. The other thing is that a lot of amp models sound very similar and in a live situation you often can't tell the difference between several.  Finally, adding distortion effects can make one model sound very similar to others too.

 

So I'd argue that the last thing I think Pod Go users genuinely need is more amp models. What we do need are practical upgrades to make Pod Go easier to use such as snap shot and multi switch naming, visibility of FS7/8 In the display, ability to use these as patch up/down so that in 6 stomp mode you dont have to tap dance with the mode switch, and the addition of 1 or even 2 more blocks so that we have more flexibility.  Next would be things we don't have, e.g. an acoustic and 12 string simulator.  And there are things that need improving such as the looper, and improvements to Pod Go Edit e.g. ability to have backups you can edit without having to always do a full backup every time you change something. Once all that's done first, then some extra amp and fx models would be icing on the cake.  

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I am an amp model addict. I love the choices. I love the variety. I love the subtle difference. I also don't suffer from option paralysis. POD Go (and Helix) allow me to work quickly to find what I need and having another dozen options doesn't slow me down.

 

My predictions for some future POD Go update:

  • Every new amp model, eventually
  • Acoustic sim (only about 10% DSP on helix)
  • No poly pitch (50+% DSP on helix!)
  • No 12-string sim (also 50% DSP)
  • Ballistic fuzz might not make it

@ElectroStrat, re: Cosmos Delay. That's based on the Roland RE-201 and is indeed a fantastic delay. Did you know Helix actually has two models of the RE-201? One is the Cosmos Echo which is the new HX model. The other is under the Legacy folder and is called Multi-Head and is the RE-201 model from the POD HD series. Fortunately for us, the Multi-Head model of the RE-201 is available on POD Go! It's a different sounding model but is still a quite good delay and can help capture that classic RE-201 sound. Try it out!

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12 hours ago, malhavok said:

I am an amp model addict. I love the choices. I love the variety. I love the subtle difference.

 

First, a big thanks for your DSP allocation chart https://benvesco.com/store/helix-dsp-allocations/

Like you, I love choice and subtle difference but I'm more a delay addict ;-) !

 

12 hours ago, malhavok said:

Did you know Helix actually has two models of the RE-201? One is the Cosmos Echo which is the new HX model. The other is under the Legacy folder and is called Multi-Head and is the RE-201 model from the POD HD series. Fortunately for us, the Multi-Head model of the RE-201 is available on POD Go! It's a different sounding model but is still a quite good delay and can help capture that classic RE-201 sound. Try it out!

 

Yes, I know the Multi-Head and indeed it's a useful delay where you can choose the heads you want to use. But I would love to tweak the wov / flutter, splice and other settings that are only available on the Cosmos Echo.

 

Given your chart, the Cosmos Echo (25.6%) is just a bit more DSP intensive than the Xenomorph Fuzz (24.7%) but less than the Ampeg Scrambler (31.7%), the latter being included in the POD Go.

Hopefully, we could have all FX models that uses equal or less DSP than the Ampeg Scrambler in a future POD Go firmware update.

 

I gave up hoping the Poly stuffs (even if they are included in the HX Stomp) ... I just received an EHX Pitch Fork + yersterday and I'm quite happy with it so far.

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@ElectroStrat, ah, you may be mis-reading the DSP allocation chart a bit. In POD Go, all delays are stereo and all dirt boxes are mono. So it would work out like this.

 

Helix:

  • Xenomorph Fuzz 13% (mono)
  • Ampeg Scrambler 17% (mono)
  • Cosmos Echo 26% (stereo)

So when you are looking at what crosses a threshold of "too much" to fit in POD Go you have to think of it in perspective of which are mono and which are stereo.

 

https://benvesco.com/store/helix-dsp-allocations/

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3 hours ago, malhavok said:

So when you are looking at what crosses a threshold of "too much" to fit in POD Go you have to think of it in perspective of which are mono and which are stereo.

 

Understood !

Thanks for the clarification.

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My hope is that they can at least add the new amps/cabs and fuzzes. I would really, really like the acoustic sim. 

 

But even if they just took a page from the "8 bank" upgrade for HX and let us be more free-form with our banks, and get rid of the fixed amp/cab/eq/pedals and have just a blank slate, that alone would bring the Pod Go up to pace with the seriously-competitive updates in 3.0. There's times where what I really want from ES1/2 is Volume & Stereo Spread, or I'd want to run without an amp/cab and get Drive + 5 "direct to the board". 

 

Plus all the obvious and easy things like favorites/defaults  and full usb midi out (which would be helped by having a 'blank slate' option)

Also it would be nice if they fixed the bug where if I have "global position" for Expression 1 / 2 set, but have a patch that maps volume to Ex1 and another to Ex2, it's possible to have the position of 1 or 2 to apply to 2 or 1 even when switching between presets that have the same mapping. 

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It's quite a bit of a let down if the Pod Go isn't going to get new newer effects.  I bought the Go largely because 4 blocks seemed enough and it had pretty much every amp/effect of the Helix.  But...  It's not, but, it's a little bit like a bait and switch; as in; sure, it has most of the Helix effects, but if they're going to add more and more effects which will never get supported by the Go...  :\   The gap is just going to get bigger and bigger.  Like missing out on let's say 3-4 amps/effects is one thing.  But then it kinda sucks when this becomes a dozen, with some of the more interesting effects being out..

 

I would have loved to get the poly sustain, but looking at its 53/69 mono/stereo DSP usage, yeah, seems like that's out...

 

21 Poly Sustain Line 6 Original delay hx 53.33% 69.47% na
4.2 Poly Pitch Line 6 Original pitch/synth hx 53.33% 60.65% na
4.4 Poly Wham Line 6 Original pitch/synth hx 53.33% 60.65% na
4.8 12-String Line 6 Original pitch/synth hx 50.67% 57.62% na
20.5 Poly Detune Line 6 Original modulation hx 48.00% 52.90% 10.21%
4.6 Poly Capo Line 6 Original pitch/synth hx 48.00% 54.59% na

 

Legendary drive should be good, since it's just a tad bit above the double tank:  

17.5 Legendary Drive Carvin VLD1 Legacy Drive (high gain channel) distortion hx 21.33% 41.33% na
6 tone sovereign Analogman King of Tone V4 distortion hx 20.00% 38.00% na
5 double tank Line 6 Original reverb hx 18.33% 19.00% 30.62%

(nevermind I think the Legendary drive was one of the original effects not included in the Go...)

 

If we go with DSP, We should be getting the Diesel amp and princess:

27 brit plexi jump Marshall® Super Lead 100 (jumped) amp-guitar 27.24% 41.23% 25.52% 40.83%
43.8 Das Benzin Lead Diezel VH4 (lead channel) amp-guitar 24.67% 40.00% #VALUE! #VALUE!
24.6 brit trem jump Marshall® Plexi Tremolo 50 (jumped) amp-guitar 24.80% 39.20% 23.82% 40.8
6.5 US Princess Fender® Princeton Reverb amp-guitar 20.00% 33.33% #VALUE! #VALUE!

 

Glitch delay and shuffling looper should be good:

22 Glitch Delay Line 6 Original delay hx 6.67% 9.33% na
3 Shuffling Looper Line 6 Original looper hx 13.33% 26.67% na

 

But yeah, really too bad for the sustain... I'm surprised it's really so expensive as an effect...  Shouldn't it be like a delay?  Just take 1s of sound, average it start/end and just loop... Anyway, not sure it works like below; the L6 demo had the sustain used with the switches rather than the wah/volume pedal.

 

             

 

 

And yeah to state the obvious...  Not even entirely sure we'll or when we'll get any of this new helix stuff...   Or has there been any announcement yet?

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You've got to be realistic here. I think I said in another thread of a similar nature that I am absolutely certain PodGo will continue to get updates and I'm sure further effects, but they are not going to match the Helix (not least because the Hardware can't) and we're still very early into the release of this product to be expecting anything but patches for bugs etc. at this point (I reckon end of Q1 for next major update). The Helix LT etc. is like double the price of the PodGo and probably worth it if you really want all those goodies... I struggled to justify the price on the PG but so glad I did as it's awesome compared to modellers and similar or lower price points. I'm sure some will buy the PG as a first Line 6 device and decide to upgrade to a Helix others will be quite happy with what they've got. 

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Yeah for sure... Also again being realistic; you should never purchase anything expecting to get updates or new functionalities...  Go already does a lot, but yeah since it shares the exact same features as the helix (code/emulation), it would seem normal that new helix dev also gets pushed down to go, when possible...

 

But it would not be worth it to upgrade to Helix though, they would be nice to have, but I wouldn't pay $1000+ for those new effects to switch up to one of the Helix products.

 

Quote

But yeah, really too bad for the sustain... I'm surprised it's really so expensive as an effect...  Shouldn't it be like a delay?  Just take 1s of sound, average it start/end and just loop... Anyway, not sure it works like below; the L6 demo had the sustain used with the switches rather than the wah/volume pedal.

 

For the Poly sustain, EHX Freeze does the sustain thing, but listening to DG's gilmour above and the poly sustain from the L6 video, it almost seems like there is some sort of modulation with DG & L6, anyway, maybe it's just the chords or guitar making the difference...

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The Princess is a very inexpensive amp on the Helix, so it seems like a no-brainer for the Pod GO. I'm all for skipping the unrealistic demands of the poly effects, but some of these others seem like they'd fit. It'd be nice to see, for sure. The Fender Princeton is one of those "Fender clean" tones that's a signature of the company. 

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Line 6 has confirmed that they are working on a firmware upgrade for Pod Go for the New Year (don't know timing I'm afraid) . Sadly, although high up on their agenda, functionality upgrades such as snap-shot and multi-fx pedal naming won't be in this upgrade but hopefully will be in future upgrades.  I'm guessing we might see some of the new amp & FX models from Helix v3 (DSP permitting), and I'm really hoping for (but this is just a 'hope' and I don't know anything) one or two more user blocks to give us 5 or 6  user blocks (with current DSP limitations) for a bit more flexibility.  I'm basing that possibility on the upgrade for HX Stomp where Pod Go upped its user blocks from 6 to 8 albeit with a warning that these will have limited value because the processing power is no different, and the extra blocks will only be available provided lower DSP hungry models are being used in the signal chain.  However, because Pod Go wasn't initially intended to provide dynamic DSP we'll just have to wait & see.  

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10 hours ago, voxman55 said:

Pod Go wasn't initially intended to provide dynamic DSP 

 

Really?  Didn't it always had 4 'dynamic' blocks where if you use too much DSP some of the effects will be greyed out due to high DSP usage?  Or am I misunderstanding the 'dynamic' terminology?  If you're talking about the # of blocks, I think the stomp got an increase in # of blocks, probably as was discussed in this forum for the Go:  "if there's enough DSP left, why not just give us extra blocks to use it!".  I think the PGO always had 4 blocks with the 'if' then greyed out and can't select x...

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11 hours ago, voxman55 said:

......  However, because Pod Go wasn't initially intended to provide dynamic DSP we'll just have to wait & see.  

 

30 minutes ago, grdGo33 said:

 

Really?  Didn't it always had 4 'dynamic' blocks where if you use too much DSP some of the effects will be greyed out due to high DSP usage?  Or am I misunderstanding the 'dynamic' terminology? .....


I think you’re both right. I believe voxmann55 is talking about full dynamic DSP management, rather than partial. The POD Go allocates a certain amount of DSP to the fixed blocks and uses dynamic DSP for the remainder. This is unlike Helix which uses fully dynamic DSP management - you start with a completely empty preset and are in full control of the DSP allocation. So I think you are talking about full vs partial dynamic DSP management.

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Yes, I was referring to full dynamic DSP, not partial as used in Pod Go currently. 

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1 hour ago, silverhead said:

I think you’re both right. I believe voxmann55 is talking about full dynamic DSP management, rather than partial. The POD Go allocates a certain amount of DSP to the fixed blocks and uses dynamic DSP for the remainder. This is unlike Helix which uses fully dynamic DSP management - you start with a completely empty preset and are in full control of the DSP allocation. So I think you are talking about full vs partial dynamic DSP management.

 

1 hour ago, voxman55 said:

Yes, I was referring to full dynamic DSP, not partial as used in Pod Go currently. 

 

Ah ok yeah I think I remember seeing a Helix vid where the DSP was displayed in terms of % in the patch edit software, but I've never used the Helix.

 

But in essence, they use the same 'dynamic' DSP ; each block has a cost in DSP % and you can't go over that %.  The main difference seems to be more limitative rather than functional:  The PGO is like baby mode, PGO just hides the % and only give 4 dynamic blocks.  And the Helix is like grown up mode; here's the numbers, here's the key to use it however you want, have fun.  PGO is much simpler right?  Don't want to strain those big brained PGO users with big numbers  lol

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15 hours ago, grdGo33 said:

Helix vid where the DSP was displayed in terms of % in the patch edit software

 

To be clear, neither Helix nor the HX Edit software displays the percentage.

 

The term "dynamic DSP" just means a contrast with older PODs where you literally had one amp, one dirt box, one delay, one mod, one reverb, vol, wah, and cab. The DSP for delay was reserved for delay. If you didn't use delay it's not like you could use that power for a second reverb or drive pedal. It was perma-slotted for delay. Period. Dynamic DSP refers to the fact that if you don't use that slot for delay then you can use it for something else. POD Go has this (as do all the Helix/HX series and the POD HD series). Don't read too much into it.

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7 hours ago, malhavok said:

 

To be clear, neither Helix nor the HX Edit software displays the percentage.

 

The term "dynamic DSP" just means a contrast with older PODs where you literally had one amp, one dirt box, one delay, one mod, one reverb, vol, wah, and cab. The DSP for delay was reserved for delay. If you didn't use delay it's not like you could use that power for a second reverb or drive pedal. It was perma-slotted for delay. Period. Dynamic DSP refers to the fact that if you don't use that slot for delay then you can use it for something else. POD Go has this (as do all the Helix/HX series and the POD HD series). Don't read too much into it.

Not exactly. Yes as far as the 4 user slots are concerned. But you can use all 4 slots and still have quite a bit of DSP left over that you can't use. HX Stomp, following the v3.0 Helix upgrade, now gives 8 slots instead of 6. It would be really good if the forthcoming Pod Go firmware upgrade upped Pod Go user blocks to 5 or 6. It doesn't change DSP processing power but it does allow greater flexibility to use the remaining DSP. 

Also, the fixed blocks in Pod Go means it's only semi dynamic because if you don't want to use e.g. an amp, cab, EQ etc you can't release that DSP.  Helix is much more dynamic DSP.

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5 hours ago, voxman55 said:

you can't release that DSP

Totally understand what you are saying. It just isn't what "dynamic DSP" means as a vocabulary term. Fixed DSP means something like all amp models use the same DSP regardless which amp you choose. POD Go just does not work that way. Every amp model chosen will dynamically allocate the amount of DSP needed. That's what dynamic DSP means. Dynamic DSP absolutely does not mean "freedom of choice" in all things. Helix allows for 32 blocks with full freedom of choice. It's easy to make a preset that uses all 32 blocks and still has not used up 100% of DSP power. Does that mean Helix doesn't have "full" dynamic DSP? Of course not. HX Stomp also had dynamic DSP just as much when it had six blocks as when it had eight. Similarly, you can still add all eight blocks and have not used 100% available DSP power. Dynamic DSP refers to the way DSP is allocated and apportioned and has nothing to do with how much of total processing you might be able to use on any given preset.

 

If you're going to argue that all patches having DSP reserved for an EQ block means it doesn't have "full" dynamic DSP then you must concede that there are no products with full dynamic DSP. Helix, HX Stomp, HX Effects, they all have fixed blocks that cannot be removed and take up DSP whether you use them or not. For example, on the internal architecture (and this is reflected in patch building) the input and output blocks are truly "blocks" in every sense of the word. They take up space in the patch. They take up DSP power by reserving a fixed allocation percentage that can never be re-claimed or used for any other purpose. So either none of the Line 6 modelers have full dynamic DSP (and it's a fictitious term that doesn't actually exist) or they all do. Helix has eight blocks that can't be removed and take up DSP whether they are on or off. HX Stomp has four blocks that can never be removed and take up DSP whether they are on or off. POD has eight blocks that can't be removed and take up DSP whether they are on or off (and some of those take a variable amount of DSP unlike Helix/HX where they are all a fixed amount).

 

I agree it would be awesome if POD let us delete every block in a preset and start from scratch.

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I appreciate this is a terminology thing @malhavokand I understand what you're saying. I'm merely highlighting that by only having 4 user blocks, Pod Go is more limiting than it actually needs to be. 

 

I completely get that Line 6 was trying to design Pod Go in such a way that users would see 'grey outs' less often.  It is less powerful than Helix (single rather than dual Sharc processors) and because it was aimed to support 'simpler' users who just needed a smaller, lighter more straightforward mfx for home and smaller gigs etc, Line 6 realised it's target market would likely be less experienced and/ or sophisticated re DSP management, and it was trying to position Pod Go at a sensible balance.  The 4 fx slot limitation is kind of like putting training wheels on a bicycle. You can still fall off and crash but it's less likely.

 

However, even though it's positioned as a Pod and not a Helix, I think Line 6 may not necessarily have anticipated that customers would still regard Pod Go as a, albeit less powerful, Helix.  Also, through the internet and forums, possibly have underestimated how quickly it's intended customer base would learn, exchange knowledge, and better understand about DSP management.  Your own excellent vid and DSP useage comparison page is a perfect case in point!

 

But now that users and potential customers have evidenced and/or acquired greater understanding, it makes sense now to take the training wheels off by allowing e.g. 6 fx slots instead of 4 and perhaps also releasing the semi fixed amp DSP if an amp model or EQ isn't needed, thus freeing up DSP for fx.  Although users would be at greater risk of  'crashing' their bikes more often, as more experienced riders they'd now better understand that their bike has limitations and riding at sensible speeds with prudent use of the brakes etc means they'll have a more enjoyable cycling experience.

 

Line 6 need now merely point out that the extra slots are just a facility if you were being more frugal on amp and fx choices, but doesn't add more processing power and for most patches, 4 blocks is still likely to be optimum. 

 

 

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They're definitely trying to position POD Go in this range of products. Notice the similarity to these Gearbox-era (and older) devices where the primary difference is they've allowed the stomp/mod/delay/verb to be fully assignable rather than fixed to those types of blocks. I'd love to see a "POD Go Pro" or something that gave us a whole blank slate to work with but also "get" the market segment they're trying to address with this product. They've got HX-era modeling split into at least seven different segments already. Would their bottom line benefit or be cannibalized by adding an eighth segment or significantly expanding the overlap of a few of those segments? I have no idea the answer to that question but will always vote in favor of more freedom and more free updates to any of those products.

image.png.3ce8396473e124a3bb729115116a16c0.png

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Would like to get the Princess....and maybe some of the new drives. Not interested in the Poly stuff as it clearly won't fit. 

 

Also hopeful one day for a Bogner Ecstasy model!

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18 hours ago, tobazor said:
nd and how about a shimmer

 

First, 'nd', that's not even like, a real word...   Second, WE ALREADY HAS SHIMMER OMGOMG!!!1111oneoneoneone    Ahem.  It is called "Plateau" reverb.  :p   It be a shimmer!  :D  

 

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Posted (edited)

sorry i meant a freeze and a shimmer reverb. 

Edited by tobazor
Eror

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15 minutes ago, tobazor said:

sorry i meant a freeze and a shimmer reverb. 

 

There are two shimmer reverbs currently - the Octo Verb and the Plateaux. Are you looking for a different kind of shimmer?

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