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Amp In A Box (pedals into a clean amp) suggestions


themetallikid
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Ok, I've always been an amp/cab guy and only really ever used a pedal to boost an amp.  I've never had a 'true' pedalboard with different flavor OD's, distortions, fuzzes etc.   With the new favorites options and default amp settings options....i've been exploring lots of amps I've never really played with before (some really drive home some tones I've struggled to get), which got me thinking more along the lines of an open jam type setup I'd walk into......a simple fenderish type amp maybe and a pedal board with 3 or 4 drive types, delay or two, modulation chorus type stuff.   Sure the delay and chorus stuff I can handle I use them mostly now in my presets...

 

however, i've 0 experience really when it comes to pedal into a clean amp to get you that amp in a box type setup or stacking OD's sorta thing.....Anyone willing to give me some starting ground ideas or settings to play with?  In my short history previously exploring this, I find the additional tone shaping options of the pedal and amps EQ a bit paralyzing when trying to adjust what I dont like in what I hear.  My 'clean' amp usually for presets is a JC120 so I like my cleans clean, and maybe that is my faulty lift off point.  

 

Anyway, appreciate any sharing....cheers!

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The Tone Sovereign (aka King of Tone) is probably the best of the traditional amp in a box pedals you'll find on the Helix.  I'm not sure which other models fit this description, except maybe for the Legacy Drive, which is kind of an actual preamp in a box.  I'd actually suggest trying some "not quite that clean" low gain amps, or even mid gain ones.  The JC120 is a solid state model, so it won't interact with pedals in as good of a way as one of the tube ones- it's much more suited to sounds where you want the sound as clean as possible, or are going for an Police/Discipline-era King Crimson type sound.  Try the Fender Deluxe, Lone Star, or Mesa Mark VI Rhythm 2 amp models.  Surprisingly, the Soldano Crunch Channel also works well in situations where you want the pedal to shoulder a lot of, but not all, the burden of distortion.  AC 30 models are also great for blending with overdrives and whatnot, but have a very distinct character that dominates over the pedal sound.

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FWIW... I use a Fender Deluxe (normal input) model for my platform... but I have also been experimenting with the new Princeton model which is quite nice. I don't run them with a traditional "scooped" tone.... I run the mids up around 7, and the bass/treble down closer to 3 which flattens the models al little. 

 

As for overdrive stacking... for me... nothing beats a neutral sounding overdrive (Timmy, KOT/POT, etc...) being goosed by a Tube Screamer before it. 

The natural sounding drive is the core tone.... while the TS will reduce highs/lows creating a really thick mid range that allows solos to jump through the mix.

 

Keep in mind... when stacking overdrives it is the last "active" overdrive that will shape the fundamental tone of the two.

IE: A TS into a Timmy sounds very different than a Timmy into a TS.   (replace those models with any models you choose)

 

EDIT TO ADD: I agree 100% with  @JimGordon regarding his quick summary of the various amps. 

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The Compulsive Drive in HP mode mimicks a Marshall-style amp. I used to like that a lot with the real pedal. The default LP mode is a great transparent overdrive, but not really an amp in a box. You may want to set the tone control lower than you’d normally do. 

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As has been said, for pretty much any AIAB pedals, the target amp is absolutely crucial. Whether it adds some drive/sag on its own is merely a matter of taste, but IMO it's mainly two things which are absolutely relevant for a great pedal platform amp (both in real life and virtual):

 

1) Slight amp compression. I'm not talking about any kind of noticeable compression, sag or whatsoever, just something to kinda glue things together. Pretty much any tube amp qualifies for that, even those with plenty of clean headroom. Before going for a fullstop modeling setup, my personal favourites (which I used for a very long time) have been a red knob "The Twin" with the stock cabs replaced (IMO absolutely crucial to turn these amps from utter garbage to fantastic almost instantly) and the clean channel of a Boogie MkIV. And yes, both of them do compress in their power amp sections, even at way less than earth shattering volume (I actually measured things a bit).

Some solid state amps will work quite well, too, but given my own experience (and taste), the JCs are not among them, not even with different cabs. Polytones actually aren't too bad, but they usually require a different speaker for best results as well (I once owned one for some jazzy duties and still remember how amazed I was when running it through a 4x12 along with some drive pedals).

Within the Helix, if I really want a clean platform amp, my first choice is what I owned in the past, namely the  Cali IV Rhythm 1. The new Princess seems to be doing quite well, too, but the Cali offers the advance of a highly effective tonestack and the additional EQ.

Fwiw, in case I want a slightly driven target amp, I usually go for one of the Marshall-alike offerings.

 

2) The speaker. This is exactly where my red knob Twin's stock speakers failed as miserably as it gets. Same for the stock JC speakers. Fortunately, within the modeling realm, replacing speakers is easy. And as far as the internal Helix speakers go, I like both the Cali 1x12 models and the Greenback 4x12s for such purposes. I usually tend to grab one of my own IRs, though, as they have some thick mids baked in, which I really like.

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I appreciate all the help on this.  WIth the 3.0 update, I literally spent 75+ minutes finishing up about 3-4 amp favorites and then creating my goto stock gig presets.  About 60 min of that was just playing on a clean sound (Archetype Clean, where was this amp all my Helix Life, lol...love it!!)  and then adding the Timmy in front for a bit of bit/boost for solos....it works well for what its intended for.  

 

My next stop is going to be that slight breakup (I call it Gritty) type tone where its clean but full strummed chords sorta breakup when hit hard.  I think this is where I need to be for amp selection from what I'm reading, and then add an OD (or two) for the AITB and such.   I guess in the past i've done a pushed version of my gritty with the TS808 being used for leads, just never explored more than the 'lead version' of the Gritty sound to be used as a rhythm much....

 

Tonight shall be fun.....

 

thanks!

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