Big Sur

[Wondo100]

Any word on Big Sur yet? My computer keeps wanting to update, but I will not until it is compatible with my Line 6 gear. 

[SaschaFranck]

Just tell your computer not to annoy you. There's not much reasons to update to Big Sur yet.

[cruisinon2]

1 hour ago, Wondo100 said:

Any word on Big Sur yet? My computer keeps wanting to update, but I will not until it is compatible with my Line 6 gear. 

 

No, and there won't be until they eventually announce "Here it is!"... it's just how they roll. As for being repeatedly prompted to update, just keep clicking "remind me tomorrow". It take 1.71 seconds, and after a couple of days you won't even notice you're doing it anymore...

[Wondo100]

15 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

No, and there won't be until they eventually announce "Here it is!"... it's just how they roll. As for being repeatedly prompted to update, just keep clicking "remind me tomorrow". It take 1.71 seconds, and after a couple of days you won't even notice you're doing it anymore...

Yup. The Helix and PC gets priority...

[IyVoR]

Hello fellow HXers.Long time lurker first time poster (the helpful info here has got me through many issues or tech questions, and the bun fights keep me amused.....)

 

So I thought I saw this asked in a thread but can't find it now having just got my MacBook back from 2 week repair and a 'no big sur thank you' service note. The latest updates for 3.01 do say Big Sur compatible, but the orange banner is still above and  no follow up email from Line6 saying good to go. Anyone able to reconcile?

 

Thanks!

[Drybonz]

48 minutes ago, IyVoR said:

The latest updates for 3.01 do say Big Sur compatible

 

Where did you see these notes?

[IyVoR]

26 minutes ago, Drybonz said:

 

Where did you see these notes?

 

It's the very last thing in the 3.01download text for each Helix product - apart from Native - 

 

Compatible OS: Mac OS X, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10, Mac OS El Capitan, macOS Sierra, macOS High Sierra, macOS Mojave, macOS Catalina, macOS Big Sur 

[steve_rolfeca]

On 12/11/2020 at 1:31 PM, IyVoR said:

 

 

It's the very last thing in the 3.01download text for each Helix product - apart from Native - 

 

Compatible OS: Mac OS X, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10, Mac OS El Capitan, macOS Sierra, macOS High Sierra, macOS Mojave, macOS Catalina, macOS Big Sur 

I noticed that as well.

However, I'm seeing posts all over the place about continuing issues with various plugins, audio drivers etc., on M1 Macs, involving a broad range of vendors.

 

It seems that while Big Sur/M1 is pretty terrific for video editing and coding, it's still causing problems with pro audio creation, and there seems to be a suggestion in those threads that when it comes to audio, the M1 hardware is a bigger problem than Big Sur as an operating system in isolation.

[IyVoR]

I think I can wring another year or two out of my intel MacBook so hopefully the M1 issues will be fixed by then......

 

As for the updates, only seems minor issues being reported here from those that have gone ahead. Nevertheless, I 'spose I'll put it down to a proof read oversight and patiently await the official green light for Big Sur. For now...  

[MartinDorr]

Maybe it’s because 3.01 is a FW update only and by itself not dependent on MAC OS or computer processor behavior. Could be that Line 6 just expects a version update of HX Edit when the’ll be happy having passed Big Sur release qualification.

[spikey]

"Catalina" is and will be a "Windows 2000" for me until my next Mac purchase, sometime in 2 or 3 years or so.

 

By the time I update Mac OS's again it may be "WAP Big Purrrr papa mowmow"  lol...

[ptsmith]

For what it’s worth, I just got a new MacBook Pro/M1 and it’s working great with HX Edit. Seems more stable actually with less communication drops than with Catalina. Haven’t had a chance to try it more with Helix Native in Logic yet. 

[bobwohler]

You know, it's ridiculous that given the dependency on software these days for creating music that those software vendors can't be more responsive and plan ahead a little better for upgrades. It's not like Apple just randomly puts out new OS versions every year and everyone is surprised. This industry, including Line6, needs to get much further ahead of the curve. Working in IT myself I thoroughly understand the need to keep up with these new releases given that security and better ways of protecting data are just as important than getting the latest consumer features. It's irresponsible to continue to be so far behind all the time. Given Line6's stature, you would assume they are partnering with Apple and getting insights into roadmaps, etc. through the Developer program. Hopefully this industry will get their act together as we all move further and further into the digital world. It's ripe for disruption for agile companies that can build a better mousetrap and deliver updates much more quickly <end soap box>

[lou-kash]

3 hours ago, bobwohler said:

This industry […] needs to get much further ahead of the curve.

 

Like, you know, making fully functional audio peripherals "obsolete" after a few years because it's sooo "costly" to update the drivers to run on more recent versions of OS, after it already took them a few years to make them run stable in the first place?

(Yes, I'm looking at you, Alesis, M-Audio, et al!)

[phil_m]

2 minutes ago, lou-kash said:

 

Like, you know, making fully functional audio peripherals "obsolete" after a few years because it's sooo "costly" to update the drivers to run on more recent versions of OS, after it already took them a few years to make them run stable in the first place?

(Yes, I'm looking at you, Alesis, M-Audio, et al!)

Alesis and M-Audio are both owned by the same company, actually.... inMusic is not known for its stellar after-sale service...

[lou-kash]

9 minutes ago, phil_m said:

Alesis and M-Audio are both owned by the same company, actually

 

Really? I knew they both changed ownership in the past decade or so, but that might explain their "common ground" in lack of support of "old" devices.

(Alright, my Firewire 410 is from 2003 and that may eventually count as "old". But it still works 100%! With hacked drivers, that is. :)

Anyway.

That's exactly the reason why I'm working using an El Capitan partition:

It is foolproof for critical missions.

Catalina?

Not so much.

Big Sur?

Hardly. Heck, I don't even own a Mac that can run Big Sur…

(Did I mention "foolproof for critical missions" already?)

[amsdenj]

I have two Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 FireWire audio interfaces. These work perfectly with Big Sur. But to get it to work, I did have to clean up a bunch of old, out of date, unused kernel extensions that were preventing any kernel extensions from loading.

 

HX Edits works fine on Big Sur, as long as its window does not loose focus. If you click on some other window, about 30 sec later, HX Edit will disconnect. You can easily reconnect, but it might not be a good idea to allow disconnects while doing firmware updates.

[ebodave]

Hello. Please go easy on me as I'm not highly tech-savvy.

 

I run Garageband with Helix Native on a MacBook Pro 2013 running Catalina. I've just bought a "new" MacBook Pro 2015 with Big Sur and am in the process of migrating everything across. I've done everything I'm supposed to do to load Helix Native. I've authorised the new computer and de-authorised the old one. Weirdly the old one seems to be still working with Native; and the new one appears to open up Native, says hi and everything, but there's a sort of grey hole where Native should be.

 

Is this the Big Sur issue that people seem to be referring to here? Or is something else going on?

 

Thanks!

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, ebodave said:

Hello. Please go easy on me as I'm not highly tech-savvy.

 

I run Garageband with Helix Native on a MacBook Pro 2013 running Catalina. I've just bought a "new" MacBook Pro 2015 with Big Sur and am in the process of migrating everything across. I've done everything I'm supposed to do to load Helix Native. I've authorised the new computer and de-authorised the old one. Weirdly the old one seems to be still working with Native; and the new one appears to open up Native, says hi and everything, but there's a sort of grey hole where Native should be.

 

Is this the Big Sur issue that people seem to be referring to here? Or is something else going on?

 

Thanks!

Hi,

 

As Helix Native has it’s own section on here, you might want to read this, although not many people seem to visit and only a couple of us reply - it is a rather forgotten corner.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

[lou-kash]

1 hour ago, ebodave said:

I've just bought a "new" MacBook Pro 2015 with Big Sur and am in the process of migrating everything across.

 

I would strongly recommend to stop migrating immediately, downgrade your new MacBook to Catalina first, and then start migrating over again. Then make sure that everything runs as expected. Then wait a few months after at least two or three more Bug Sur bug fix updates have been released by Apple, AND after Line 6 has confirmed that all of their software is Big Sure compatible. Then you can still upgrade to Big Sur if you wish.

 

For what it's worth, just over the weekend I was downgrading a buddy's brand new MacBook Air 2020 (Intel) to Catalina because he has accidentally clicked the "Upgrade" button. He doesn't use any Line 6 products though, so I have no direct experience with that.

A downgrade is not a trivial task, but it's manageable, and it's definitely worth it if you don't want to run into audio incompatibility issues all the time.

I was proceeding roughly by this guide:

https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/downgrade-macos-3581872/#bootable

Good luck…

Edited December 21, 2020 by lou-kash

[deparko]

Well Big Sur OS 11 was release over 4 months ago (Sept) and Line6 still does not support it?  Really not cool!

[datacommando]

3 hours ago, deparko said:

Well Big Sur OS 11 was release over 4 months ago (Sept) and Line6 still does not support it?  Really not cool!

Here we go again - similar discussion here - same answers apply.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

[creesenator]

Pro Tool works just fine with Big Sur.  So do the other 50 apps/software I have running on Big Sur.  

 

Helix Please keep up!!!!

[wealthywine]

C'mon, Line 6 - You are putting my entire network at risk because I can't update my Macbook Pro to Big Sur until you release a Big-Sur compatible version of HX Edit. It has been over two months since Big Sur was released and a Developer the size of Yamaha surely could gain early access to the OS. Heck, it has been over two months since Line 6 officially updated this thread - how much trouble can it be to post a monthly update?

[hawkeyepierce]

On 1/19/2021 at 4:38 PM, wealthywine said:

C'mon, Line 6 - You are putting my entire network at risk because I can't update my Macbook Pro to Big Sur until you release a Big-Sur compatible version of HX Edit. It has been over two months since Big Sur was released and a Developer the size of Yamaha surely could gain early access to the OS. Heck, it has been over two months since Line 6 officially updated this thread - how much trouble can it be to post a monthly update?

 

^This.  At this point, it is ridiculous that Line 6 hasn't updated HX Edit to work with Big Sur yet.  I'm not the kind of guy that complains as soon as something is released...I get things take time.  But it's been 2 months since Big Sur came out, and as everyone has pointed out, Line 6 (Yamaha) surely got it early.  It's just poor planning to wait this long.  And no, I don't need to hear "don't update your Mac".  That's ridiculous nonsense....I should be able to update my computer 2 months later.  Doesn't matter if there "isn't a reason to" in someone's mind or not.  In my particular case, I got my first MacBook in the last few weeks, and it came with Big Sur.  I shouldn't have to downgrade a Mac to work with software when the OS has been out for months...

 

Let's go Line 6...I love the Helix, but you've gotta keep up.

[datacommando]

9 hours ago, hawkeyepierce said:

and as everyone has pointed out, Line 6 (Yamaha) surely got it early.

Hawkeye,

 

Why do people assume that Line 6 have vast resources at their disposal through the involvement with Yamaha.

 

Here’s a quote from the Line 6 website.

 

“Under the terms of the agreement, Yamaha will operate Line 6 as a wholly owned subsidiary to fully realize the compelling opportunities for the two brands with Line 6’s operations continuing as before and its management team remaining in place.”

 

You’re obviously mistaken as to how big a operation Line 6 is and how many people are actually employed there to deal with this stuff.

 

Cut these guys some slack will ya, and once more, please take the time to see how many other outfits still are not up to speed with the new Apple stuff. 
 

Jeeziz. 
 

Regards

Radar.

[bobwohler]

I appreciate the perspective you bring and I do assume that many equipment manufacturers are smaller rather than larger but this is a rampant issue across many types of tech companies. This isn't the pre-internet days. There are real dangers out there that can bring all kinds of bad actors into the lives of customers that can't afford to have a dedicated MacBook or iMac on which they can isolate all of these risks. If a company wishes to leverage internet technologies in their products, they need to be sure their customers are safe first and foremost. Working in IT and dealing with the constant threat of bad actors has taught me that everyone, customers and vendors alike, need to take these threats seriously. 

[creesenator]

I don't think this really has anything to do with the size of the company.  This is 2021, not 1990 when computers just came out.  This should be an essential piece of their business and should not be a lengthy process to do software testing and bug fixes for new major software releases.  I know from experience they can contract this out for a small fee and it should not take more than a few weeks.  I am guessing at least 1/2 of their thousands of Helix custmers have Mac.  I love line6 and have spent a lot of money on their technology and have recommended them to several others in the industry(many who where hesitant at first).   A little communication from line6 would be nice.  To me this sounds like a major issue with management at Line6.  

[CaramonMajere]

3 months and any comonication from line6,its a joke or what? the helix is a tool and some users need the Mac update.The line6 is lost if don't work on this update.

[steve_rolfeca]

On 1/24/2021 at 12:27 PM, creesenator said:

I don't think this really has anything to do with the size of the company.  This is 2021, not 1990 when computers just came out.  This should be an essential piece of their business and should not be a lengthy process to do software testing and bug fixes for new major software releases.  I know from experience they can contract this out for a small fee and it should not take more than a few weeks.  I am guessing at least 1/2 of their thousands of Helix custmers have Mac.  I love line6 and have spent a lot of money on their technology and have recommended them to several others in the industry(many who where hesitant at first).   A little communication from line6 would be nice.  To me this sounds like a major issue with management at Line6.  

 

On 1/26/2021 at 5:18 AM, CaramonMajere said:

3 months and any comonication from line6,its a joke or what? the helix is a tool and some users need the Mac update.The line6 is lost if don't work on this update.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that Line 6 could reduce everyone's stress level by regularly updating the compatibility posts that are anchored at the top of the forum. Even a brief update like "still working on it, 26Jan21" would reassure people that they haven't forgotten us.

That said, a lot of comments are made on these threads that demonstrate an ignorance of the difference between software development in the general business market, and in pro audio.

The first and most important thing to understand, is that as musicians, we are in a unique situation:

1. Click-free multi-channel audio doesn't require nearly as much bandwidth or speed as more demanding tasks, like video rendering. But, and it's a BIG but, we have very special requirements in terms of timing and synchronization:

• Windows or Mac, getting a good DAW setup stable generally takes some tweaking and some hard-earned computer savvy. Even when you get it running reliably, simple things like minor OS upgrades can take you down for days.
• That's why  studio owners often run their audio computers on a separate, isolated network, and only update when they absolutely have to in order to obtain a new feature.
• That's also why studio owners are extremely conservative about new tech and new code. A lot of my friends are 2 or 3 versions behind the latest release on their primary DAW software.

Allow me to repeat that last point:

• In the residential computer market, and amongst amateur musicians, there's a general sense that newer is better.  Their computers are also used for everything from audio creation to personal correspondence to consuming pornography, so there's a pressing need to keep up with the latest toys and the latest security patches.
• That makes no f#$%#@ sense in a pro audio environment.
• If I've finally tweaked a 32-channel 192K computer audio installation to the point that it's stable and giving me glitch-free recording and playback with tons of plugins active; if I'm invulnerable to malware because my audio computers aren't connected to the internet; if I'm making great recordings and my clients are happy; why on earth would risk rocking the boat?  Why would I even need a new operating system?

 

2. This is something of a "cottage industry". Some of the heaviest hitters in pro audio are tiny compared to even mass market hardware and software businesses. They don't have thousands of employees, and many of the ones they have are often elbow deep in development and prototyping. As such, they don't have a ton of pull with Apple, which is a notoriously difficult company to work with.

 

3. Another thing worth considering, is that contrary to popular belief, Line 6 is not an outlier in the music industry, in terms of not having full Big Sur and Apple M1 compatibility worked out yet.

 

Go to Sweetwater, and look for yourself:

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/macos-11-big-sur-compatibility-guide/#macOS-11-Big-Sur-Compatibility-List

 

I've been checking that list regularly since late November, and there's still over one-hundred and eighty vendors with their status marked as "Wait to update: Check back later." Pretty much everyone who is anyone, is on that list.

It's also worth noting that so far in the month of January, less than a dozen companies have reported any meaningful progress.

 

Even the ones that claim to have "Limited Compatibility, read more", are mostly only reporting partial functionality.

Big Sur is a bit of a beast at the moment, which is not unusual for the annual Apple OS upgrade cycle. Everybody loves to hate the latest version of MacOS until about mid-year, which is typically when things finally start to stabilize.

More importantly, Big Sur is a major milestone for Apple, bigger than the previous move from Motorola to Intel processors. It incorporates massive changes to the core Mac OS functionality, which had to be made in order to use new M1 silicon. M1 Macs have a revolutionary, simplified architecture that offers tremendous efficiency in terms of RAM utilization and power consumption: suddenly 8GB is the new 32GB, and 15 Watts is the new 165W. That is literally a game-changer for the entire PC industry.

You simply don't get that kind of disruptive innovation in the computer and software industry without some headaches....

[ebodave]

Hats off to Steve for that detailed and informative contribution: thanks so much. I had heard similar stories from a professional engineer friend...

 

Nonetheless, I still think some kind of communication from Line 6 would be appreciated. It's all very well that they're in the same boat as 180 other vendors, but for the average non-expert like me: imagine the warm glow that we would get if Line 6 took the front foot and said - and kept saying - how much they love and value their customers, how frustrating it must be, and how they're working on the update as hard as they can with the limited resources they have. In my experience that kind of candour from a vendor is worth a huge amount.

[datacommando]

12 hours ago, steve_rolfeca said:

You simply don't get that kind of innovation in the computer and software industry without some headaches....

Thank you sir!

Finally, someone who understands and hopefully has eventually managed to get the message across. I gave up!

 

As for everyone else, who continue to bemoan the situation, I will repeat once more - Line 6 staff do not regularly monitor these forums. These are discussion groups for users.

 

If you seriously want to attract the attention of someone who maybe able to advise you of the current status of compatibility with MacOS 11 Big Sur and or the new Mac M1 Models, then post your queries FAO Frank Ritchotte (Line 6 head honcho) over on The Gear Page website. That should stir things up. You could also try the Helix Family Group on Facebook and see what response you get there, as those two places are where the main influencers hang out - not here.

 

I hope this helps/makes sense (at last)

[hawkeyepierce]

On 1/27/2021 at 8:27 AM, datacommando said:

As for everyone else, who continue to bemoan the situation, I will repeat once more - Line 6 staff do not regularly monitor these forums. These are discussion groups for users.

 

Couldn't care less.  You can talk all you want (so can Steve above).  Doesn't change a damn thing.  L6 should COMMUNICATE.  It's not hard to give an update.  I couldn't care less how small the company is or "how many other outfits aren't updated....Jeeziz".  You sound like moron for suggesting that it's okay for a company to go months without updating their incredibly simple software interface and not even giving an update on it.  But what else should I expect from a guy with a dog for a profile pic?

 

I've worked for massive companies and small companies alike.  You don't go months without keeping your stuff updated.  Period.  No excuses for it. Literally thousands of their users are using Mac...no reason they shouldn't be able to update the software.  Maybe not the day it comes out, but certainly over 2 months later.

 

The thing that makes it REALLY ridiculous is that the only real issue with Big Sur and HX Edit is that it disconnects.  Other than that it works fine.  Before you point out the obvious (seems to be common for people on this forum), yes, I know I can just click "reconnect".  Its not that hard.  But that's not the point.  If disconnecting is the only issue, as a programmer myself, it's likely something that can be fixed in VERY little time (like hours or days...definitely within months).

 

On 1/27/2021 at 8:27 AM, datacommando said:

I hope this helps/makes sense (at last)

 

Your ridiculous comment made sense the first time...it just sounded stupid to people with common sense.  And yes, I know that L6 doesn't troll this forum for issues.  "This is a discussion forum for users".  Yeah I get it...so I'm discussing how freaking stupid it is that this isn't fixed yet.

[datacommando]

5 hours ago, hawkeyepierce said:

You sound like moron for suggesting that

Mmm... thank you for your considered opinion.

 

My wife said that my “people skills” could do with a little polish, but my “people skills” are just fine, it’s my tolerance of stupidity that needs some work.

 

5 hours ago, hawkeyepierce said:

But what else should I expect from a guy with a dog for a profile pic?

Woof!

 

5 hours ago, hawkeyepierce said:

as a programmer myself, it's likely something that can be fixed in VERY little time

Well, instead of wasting your life irritating me, maybe your genius could be better employed in coming up with a solution to this yourself!

 

Other than that.

 

DILLIGAF!

 

[Yardrath19]

I received my M1 one month ago...  Native OS big Sur. I bought it for the only purpose of creating music. But so far I still can't use the Helix as the main interface with Logic 10.6 ... Toooooooo many glitches and interferences. It's just unusable with the Fishman Triple Play either. 
The HX edit has to be constantly relaunched to work. 

Well I must admit that it's been a while since Big Sur has been released (November ?) and I am surprised (and a bit disappointed) with the lack of information from Line 6... I can understand that there can be troubles, but please, INFORM. 

We trust you. 

 

Thanks 

[deparko]

Well, it looks like the same status because I don't see any updates from Line6. Is there no Big Sur support for their entire product line? or just Helix? I'm wondering why a pro audio company who is really a software company as well would ignore currency. Perhaps the Apple base is a small one? I thought most musicians prefer apple.  Did they not get an early beta? Is there something so significant in Big Sur that it requires a major architecture change.  I've been in the software business for over 20 years and very rarely would I see this type of late support for a tier one platform.  

 

 

 

thanks

[mightyjfish]

Yep, Had a 2012 Imac that ran with a line 6 ux2 and ux1 through podfarm for recording in Logic, the hard drive finally gave up so I upgraded to a shiny mac mini. I was super excited to set up my studio again and here I am 4 months later just waiting for news each day. I thought line 6 interfaces were the best but the lack of communication and no confirmation that anything is happening at all is pretty disheartening. I mean there's a lot of people here all after the same update and they are just the ones who took time to comment so clearly line 6 have a demand. 

 

Cheers

[mmarkuz]

agreed, communication is poor, especially after such a long time you would expect at least an update regarding expected timeline of delivery. very disappointing...

[datacommando]

On 3/3/2021 at 6:21 AM, deparko said:

I'm wondering why a pro audio company who is really a software company as well would ignore currency.

I've been in the software business for over 20 years and very rarely would I see this type of late support for a tier one platform.  

 

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:57 AM, mightyjfish said:

I was super excited to set up my studio again and here I am 4 months later just waiting for news each day. I thought line 6 interfaces were the best but the lack of communication and no confirmation that anything is happening at all is pretty disheartening.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 9:53 AM, mmarkuz said:

agreed, communication is poor, especially after such a long time you would expect at least an update regarding expected timeline of delivery. very disappointing...

 

As I have said many, many times in these threads about the delay in producing an update - it is not just Line 6, plenty of other "pro audio" companies are in the same situation.

 

Prime example - only this morning I received an email from Eventide: QUOTE:

 

 

Eventide plug-ins are compatible with macOS Big Sur on Intel-based Macs, and M1-based Macs using Rosetta.

Eventide plug-ins do not yet offer native M1 support.

To use Eventide plug-ins on an M1 Mac, you may need to launch your DAW under Rosetta (right-click the application icon, select "Get Info" and then select "Open using Rosetta"). Note that many DAWs do not yet support macOS Big Sur, so it is important to check your DAW's website for compatibility info before updating.

Please check our forum thread regularly for up to date information about M1-based Mac compatibility.

 

END QUOTE

 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense

[mmarkuz]

On 3/10/2021 at 4:48 PM, datacommando said:

 

 

 

As I have said many, many times in these threads about the delay in producing an update - it is not just Line 6, plenty of other "pro audio" companies are in the same situation.

 

Prime example - only this morning I received an email from Eventide: QUOTE:

 

 

Eventide plug-ins are compatible with macOS Big Sur on Intel-based Macs, and M1-based Macs using Rosetta.

Eventide plug-ins do not yet offer native M1 support.

To use Eventide plug-ins on an M1 Mac, you may need to launch your DAW under Rosetta (right-click the application icon, select "Get Info" and then select "Open using Rosetta"). Note that many DAWs do not yet support macOS Big Sur, so it is important to check your DAW's website for compatibility info before updating.

Please check our forum thread regularly for up to date information about M1-based Mac compatibility.

 

END QUOTE

 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense

 

... at least they support Big Sur, even if it's just Rosetta... reading comments in the forum seems like HX Edit & Logic do not work at all