Indianrock2020 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 I'd just like to hear from others who have tested Helix latency by running a 1/4 inch cable from 1/4 out to guitar input. I'll be using the RTL utility and just want to make sure it's safe to use a patch cable like that. I'd guess testing should be done on a blank preset as well as on one typically used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianrock2020 Posted December 22, 2020 Author Share Posted December 22, 2020 Went ahead and tried it. Well neither RTL nor Cakewalk recognize the Helix ASIO driver. I do see HX Stomp in RTL but otherwise no recognition. It's there in the control panel (Helix Control Panel) as well as under devices. Audacity recognizes it. Helix edit runs fine and everything is up to date to 3.01 with the Helix driver date shows May 2020. Rebooted/restarted everything. Not too impressed with this driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianrock2020 Posted December 22, 2020 Author Share Posted December 22, 2020 When I updated to 3.01 a few days ago, it didn't require a new version of HXedit. but it is suspicious that the Helix driver shows May 2019 and not more recent. Will deleting and reinstalling the latest hxedit update the drivers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 From all I know, the driver hasn't been updated with 3.x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 The are actually two drivers for Helix. I believe one (called WinUSB) is only required for a Windows platform and it handles general audio over USB on Windows. The most recent version was released in July 2019 but it may show a May 2019 internal date that your system is seeing. There is no corresponding driver required on Mac; Helix uses something called Core Audio I think. I believe the other (called Line 6 Driver2) handles more application specific (e.g.DAW) audio and its most recent version is July 2020 on both Windows and Mac platforms. And yes, reinstalling HX Edit will update the drivers but you may already have the latest version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianrock2020 Posted December 22, 2020 Author Share Posted December 22, 2020 Reinstalled the drivers. Now cakewalk sees inputs 1,3,5,7 ( usb) not the even numbered ones. When I ran RTL it now sees the Helix asio and shows 8 inputs and 8 outputs so I selected all of them. Cable from 1/4 to guitar 1/4 input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 Typical results. Huge latency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianrock2020 Posted December 22, 2020 Author Share Posted December 22, 2020 I set up two patches, both with usb 3/4 input and usb 1/2 output. Best latency on the empty patch was 9.1ms at 96 khz and 64 buffer size On a normal patch with my usual blocks, with usb 3/4 input and 1/2 output, best was 11.5ms at 48khz/64 My audio interface reports about 6ms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 The RTL utility can't exactly measure USB input latency. In fact, it's tough to measure that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 I have a question... beyond satisfying curiosity, what does one actually do with this information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 23 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said: I have a question... beyond satisfying curiosity, what does one actually do with this information? Get other people informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 40 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said: Get other people informed. To what end, though? I'm genuinely curious... since it isn't gonna change anything, what's the point? The gear is what it is, and those who find the latency intolerable already know that they don't like it. What purpose does assigning a number to an unfavorable opinion, serve? I already know that I don't like lima beans... quantifying that dislike, were it possible, won't change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianrock2020 Posted December 22, 2020 Author Share Posted December 22, 2020 I'm playing a few hours per week using Jamkazam ( online jamming). Latency is key. I just wanted to see if removing the audio interface and running Helix direct to laptop would be better ( seems logical, remove something and there's less overhead, exactly why I always remove the headers and mufflers on my cars). Unfortunately, that's not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 13 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said: To what end, though? I'm genuinely curious... since it isn't gonna change anything, what's the point? The gear is what it is, and those who find the latency intolerable already know that they don't like it. What purpose does assigning a number to an unfavorable opinion, serve? People might come to the conclusion to purchase a different product in case they want a low latency audio interface along with their modeler. I bought my main interface mainly because of the latency figures. Hence I did some research on that beforehand. And I've been pretty happy to find proper reports. In addition, IMO it *does* make sense to keep bringing this to L6s attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolko60 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 9 hours ago, Indianrock2020 said: I'd just like to hear from others who have tested Helix latency by running a 1/4 inch cable from 1/4 out to guitar input. Helix hardware latency has already been measured for two operating systems and four drivers. Measuring RTL hardly makes any sense because Line 6 driver correctly reports it to DAW/host. I have talked about it with some Line 6 guys. Line 6 does not have any plans for doing anything about it. Hx is not marketed as audio interface, it has direct monitoring and Hx users do not report any latency issues. Case closed unless somebody have info that 32 samples buffer size is usable on MacOS and 64 samples buffer is usable on Windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 16 hours ago, Indianrock2020 said: I'm playing a few hours per week using Jamkazam ( online jamming). Latency is key. Fwiw, when using Jamkazam, the latency of your interface (whatever it might be) should be the last thing to worry about. Usually, any online based services introduce a way higher latency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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