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Tone control of Amp modelling


Guido_59
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Simple question tone control of various amp model are passive and are neutral set on max, then are substantially subtractive? I notice that some model has different tone control than real amp. Example Small tweed , refer to Tweed deluxe 57 or 59?, has separated bass mud treeble instead of simple tone control of real amp.

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Taken from an old post on TGP by the amp models designer Ben Adrian --->> https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/line6-helix.1586637/post-21593186

 

"" All these extra knobs.
If an amp has a small number of knobs, then we will invent the knobs in a way that makes the most sense to us.
First, let me say that the Channel Volume (ChVol) knob is ALWAYS a flat response, post amp model level control. This is like a fader on a console. It's in the amp model, but it's not tied to the tonality of the amp model. It's how I level different presets so that they play well together.

The Drive knob corresponds with the Drive or Gain knob on master volume amps. With amps that don't have a master volume, it corresponds with the Volume knob. So, on the Deluxe model that you reference, the Drive knob is the Volume control on the front panel.

The Master Volume knobs in Helix map to the Master volume knobs on amps with Master Volume controls. If the amp does not have a master volume control, then we add one similar to where an amp tech might add one to an amp if the amp was having one installed. In the case of the Deluxe, this is between the preamp and the power amp. This can be thought of as a passive volume reduction. Master @ 10 is like it's not in the circuit. As it is turned down, the level from the preamp into the power amp is reduced.

Tone controls. We try to make them fit the character of the amp. In the Deluxe Reverb, the tone controls are exactly like that or a twin reverb except the 10k linear midrange knob is replaced with a fixed 6.8k resistor. If you want to match the model to the actual amp, set the model between 6.1 and 6.8 (values drift in the real amps. My idea, though, was to make the midrange knob on the deluxe behave like the midrange knob on other black-face fender circuits that have a midrange control.

In other amps, tone controls gets invented on a per-amp basis. In the tweed champ, the bass and treble are after the amp modeling, but the midrange control is between the two preamp gain stages. The midrange knob can become a cool drive feature. In some amps, the invented controls come between the preamp and the power amp. In short, we tried to make it sound good, and we tried to respect what is happening in similar classic amp circuits.""

 

In a nutshell just use your ears and set the controls where they give the best results for you.

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21 minutes ago, hurghanico said:

Taken from an old post on TGP by the amp models designer Ben Adrian

 

Those guys at Line 6 have so deep knowledge to be found all over the net but L6 manuals, knowledge base, FAQ, specs, charts! ;)

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Thanks to all for very useful informations. I'll read all suggests with great attention cause my English unfortunately is not so good.Excuse for my language I write from Italy!

With real amp I have own in the past, I I have always set all tone control to max, because there was passive to have the real voice of Amp. Then by guitar tone control I did make tone brighter or darker.

 

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3 hours ago, Guido_59 said:

Thanks to all for very useful informations. I'll read all suggests with great attention cause my English unfortunately is not so good.Excuse for my language I write from Italy!

With real amp I have own in the past, I I have always set all tone control to max, because there was passive to have the real voice of Amp. Then by guitar tone control I did make tone brighter or darker.

 

 

I am also Italian and I live in Italy.


Actually I still use an old HD500 so maybe I should just reply to posts in the dedicated forum and not in this one, but I happened here by chance, nevertheless I believe that even if the technology has certainly evolved, certain basic aspects in modeling remained almost unchanged.


Every now and then I happen to take a look at the posts in this forum and also in those of other brands, and often I re-read the same questions and observations I have already read countless times in the past. So I almost automatically feel authorized to give answers or suggestions. But I'm not going to invade someone else's field. Forgive me those who see me as an intruder (it's only temporary, like a quick injection). LOL


Your way Guido of using tube amps is what is referred to as the old school way, used by so many rock guitarists, and so many records have been recorded with the amps and guitars used that way.

 

Ok.. Back to the tone controls..
Except perhaps for a few isolated cases I would consider all the tone and gain/master controls of the amp models as passive (as you imagined/supposed), even those invented that probably have been implemented as if they were so, added just to give the possibility to be able to further customize or refine the result according to your personal idea of the sound you should/would get from a certain model.

 

Given the many more options offered by the models they look initially more complex to use than the real amps they emulate, but offer much more versatility and possibilities to sculpt the sound to get what we have in mind.

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hurghanico

Wow I’m living in Anzola dell’ Emilia !
I have some difficulties to understand a complex discussion in Emglish .

I’ll do me best .

 

@codamedia  I haven’t seen that page , it’s vero interesting. I’ll read it with great attention and try to set at best Grammatico LaGrange that is The most similar to tweed delude 5e3 like Neil Young, etc.

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