MGW-Alberta Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I own the BOSS AC-3 this effect is modelled after. It's on my conventional pedalboard right now. I know how to use it and what's it's limitations are. I also used to own an AX2-212 with an Acoustic Sim built in. With the new update, Helix now has one too so now that's 3 I have experience with. None of them are particularly great. You can still hear the sound of the Les Paul or Strat you're using. I have higher expectations for the future of this new one on the Helix though because of something the other two never had; the ability to use IRs. This brings up my question. What would be the awesomest IR to pair with it to try to get something that sounds a bit closer to an actual acoustic? (PS - I think it's the most awesomest thing that spell-check isn't flagging my use of awesomest. Who knew a word that dumb would get a pass? I didn't.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymda Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Tough one to answer as (just like speaker IRs) that'll come down to personal taste. I quite like the 3 Sigma IRs and and use a Gibson, Martin, or Taylor depending on use and patch - and I've used them with variax models as well as the acc sim effect. I like the acoustic sounds in the worship tutorials dudes demos's but never shelled out to try the IRs With the variax models I use IRs for straight acoustic sounds. With the effect, for a blend of acoustic with electric using parallel paths - I can't see using the effect as a standalone acoustic sound (for me), even with an IR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I've owned the Boss AC-3 in the past and have used the acoustic sim on the Helix and the only time I would ever use either of them is in the course of a song that has a section that requires acoustic, but is mainly an electric guitar song. Otherwise I use a real acoustic guitar on a preset designed for acoustic guitar. An acoustic simulation is good in a pinch, but not sufficient on it's own and I wouldn't expect it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 The best nonacoustic acoustic sound I ever got was with the first generation of Variax technology and the POD HD 500X. It was the kVariax acoustics with a certain mic preamp in the POD. I can'rt remember which one. The acoustics were only OK until you added this one preamp. I would have never hesitated to use it. Shortly after that, the second variation of Variax's came out. I got one and the acoustics IMHO, were thinner sounding. Too much high end zing. Not enough "body". No preamp in the POD or the Helix would fix it. I've trie EQ and IR's and it never get's to what I had with the old Variax and POD HD 500. Good enough in a pinch but a real acoustic is way better. Why don't I just go back to the old Variax? Because, I would only be doing it for the acoustics, Otherwise I like the models better on the JTV Variax's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGW-Alberta Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 6 hours ago, DunedinDragon said: I've owned the Boss AC-3 in the past and have used the acoustic sim on the Helix and the only time I would ever use either of them is in the course of a song that has a section that requires acoustic, but is mainly an electric guitar song. Otherwise I use a real acoustic guitar on a preset designed for acoustic guitar. An acoustic simulation is good in a pinch, but not sufficient on it's own and I wouldn't expect it to be. That's exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm just hoping the right IR can make it a bit better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 2 hours ago, MGW-Alberta said: That's exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm just hoping the right IR can make it a bit better. I personally use the 3Sigma set of acoustic IRs when I need to do something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGW-Alberta Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 3 hours ago, DunedinDragon said: I personally use the 3Sigma set of acoustic IRs when I need to do something like that. ... and does it make a noticeable improvement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 2 hours ago, MGW-Alberta said: ... and does it make a noticeable improvement? Quite frankly I haven't used it with the acoustic sim at this point as we have a full time acoustic guitar player in the band now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGW-Alberta Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 Well, if you should ever decide to try it and see if there's a difference I would love to hear your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 On 1/20/2021 at 9:41 PM, MGW-Alberta said: None of them are particularly great. You can still hear the sound of the Les Paul or Strat you're using. Every guitar will have a pickup position that works best... it's important to isolate that "favorite" position then build the tone from that. Flipping pickup positions on an electric would produce wildly different sounds... but it wouldn't be any different if you had an acoustic with a moveable pickup. That's the nature of how pickup position works. On 1/20/2021 at 9:41 PM, MGW-Alberta said: I own the BOSS AC-3 this effect is modelled after. How the AC-2 and AC-3 were used makes all the difference. Both sound a lot better when the 2nd output is utilized to send the acoustic tone directly to the PA or a Full Range amp. With the Helix AC Sim it would be just as important to make sure it is monitored full range, without any amp/cab modeling taking place. (of course there are exceptions to this general rule of usage) 20 hours ago, MGW-Alberta said: I'm just hoping the right IR can make it a bit better. Certainly couldn't hurt. I made my own set of IR's from my Fishman Aura and use those on all my acoustic instruments. I haven't tried them with the Acoustic sim yet, but I'm sure they would provide a nice improvement - when used appropriately. If I were in the market for a 3rd party IR I would look at 3 Sigma and choose a package of choice for $10. There will be several options in a single package to keep you busy for a while to see if it's a directly worth pursuing further. https://www.3sigmaaudio.com/acoustic-impulses/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGW-Alberta Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 Everywhere I look I'm seeing people almost universally recommend 3 Sigma Audio IRs so I downloaded one. This will be my first time using aftermarket IRs so I don't know what sample rate to use for the Helix Floor. My Options appear to be 44.1, 48, 82.4 & 96 I'm just assuming those are sample rates because the numbers look like it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGW-Alberta Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 I've been reading. Helix will support almost any IR at almost any sample rate but HX-Edit will convert whatever you install to what it wants before it uploads to the machine, which is 48 and mono and 2048 bits. Apparently HX-Edit will truncate any IR that is too large, basically just chopping it off and discarding whatever was left so I'll just go with the 48 to be safe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Watch this video. This guy wrings some good sounds out of the acoustic sim: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGW-Alberta Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 Thanks. I watched the video and wrote down all his settings. In my world those settings were not very good but I used his model selections in the same order he placed them and after fooling with it for an hour or so I was able to make something almost passable. I'll keep working on it until I think it's as good as I'm likely to get it. One thing is for certain. It absolutely does sound better with an IR. There's no question. My next task after this it is to figure out what I can get rid of to reduce the size of the patch so I can incorporate it as a snapshot in some of my other patches without running out of DSP room. I have a feeling that's not going to be easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gk001 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Check the free acoustic IR database, loads to experiment with at no cost http://acousticir.free.fr Great site 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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