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Mikkel79

Helix vs kemper. Not really

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Ok just a little perspective first. 
I own both a Helix and a Kemper. I really love the kemper, and get some great sounds from it. Then I have made and bought some helix presets, and first I Think they Sound good, but then I take them to reherselroom, and compare to kemper and they just Sound really bad compared :-/ 

very frustrated I play around with the helix and wanna try some different caps for it. I then turn of the cap completely, and voila, now it sounds really nice!!! Has this ever happened to any of you guys?

 

our bass player has a stomp, for effects and could never get an even decent bass Sound from it. We turned of cap simulator, and now it sounds awesome through pa??

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Mikkel79 said:

Ok just a little perspective first. 
I own both a Helix and a Kemper. I really love the kemper, and get some great sounds from it. Then I have made and bought some helix presets, and first I Think they Sound good, but then I take them to reherselroom, and compare to kemper and they just Sound really bad compared :-/ 

very frustrated I play around with the helix and wanna try some different caps for it. I then turn of the cap completely, and voila, now it sounds really nice!!! Has this ever happened to any of you guys?

 

our bass player has a stomp, for effects and could never get an even decent bass Sound from it. We turned of cap simulator, and now it sounds awesome through pa??

 

 

 

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're not using any cabinet sims, and running straight to the PA? Normally that would result in a horrifying sound, reminiscent of a rusty chainsaw at a tire burnout contest... but if you like what you hear, then so be it... it is very odd however, and not at all what one would expect.

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10 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're not using any cabinet sims, and running straight to the PA? Normally that would result in a horrifying sound, reminiscent of a rusty chainsaw at a tire burnout contest... but if you like what you hear, then so be it... it is very odd however, and not at all what one would expect.

i read it the opposite, like he is using a cab, and maybe thats why the Helix sounds bad....using a cab sim, into a cab.  I'm not familiar with Kemper or their programming so not sure what it uses or requires.  

 

But I can see where youd get that he is running direct with no cab at all, and yes that would be horribly harsh.

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I also own a Kemper and a Helix and they pretty much work the same way when it comes to CAB. The first thing you want to understand it that there are multiple ways of using both units. From what I gather, it sounds like you were using Helix Cabs into a real Cabinet which will not give you good results. If you are running either unit into a real cabinet you must turn off all Cab simulation, the Kemper works the same way as the Helix. If you run the Helix or Kemper into a PA or FRFR speaker and turn the Cabs off, it will sound horrible. So if you plan on using a real cabinet with the Kemper or Helix, do not use any CABs within the units. When using a real cabinet with the Helix, you also have the choice of AMP or PREAMP, experiment with both.

 

Key point - When running either the Helix or Kemper through a real cabinet, turn off the CABS. When running through a PA or FRFR, choose a CAB.

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1 hour ago, themetallikid said:

i read it the opposite, like he is using a cab, and maybe thats why the Helix sounds bad....using a cab sim, into a cab.

 

I dunno, we'll need clarification... but this is what he said, and there's no mention of an actual physical cabinet.

Who knows?

 

1 hour ago, Mikkel79 said:

We turned of cap simulator, and now it sounds awesome through pa??

 

 

 

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OP is talking about capo, as in digital capo effect.  Seems strange but sounds like it worked out.  

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2 hours ago, erabjohns said:

OP is talking about capo, as in digital capo effect.  Seems strange but sounds like it worked out.  

 

Well until he reappears to clarify we'll never know, but I seriously doubt that's what he's talking about. I had thought "cap" was a typo,and he meant "cab"...capo is not really a word that needs abbreviating, so I'm not sure why he'd bother, lol...but who knows? Everything else in his post seems to indicate that he's talking about comparing the basic tones of the two devices, rather than focusing narrowly on pitch shifting abilities. Either way, I'm done guessing...it's pointless until he resurfaces.

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Cap? Cab? Did you forget a Cab Sim/IR going FRFr? Or did you use a Cabsim while going into an amp?

 

No matter what sounds like a typical case of:

My Presets from home sound awful in my band.

 

That's why you don't finish your live/rehearsel presets at home. You dial them in as far as you need to and then you show up an hour earlier to tweak the Bejeezus out of it. Bonus points if the rest of the band shows up an hour earlier, too. Then you rehearse some wellknown songs and tweak as needed after each song. Your sound will thank you.

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Sorry for my late reply, ive had it set up for e-mail, but didnt get any, when you guys wrote. 
 

so i was running into pa, not a guitar speaker, with no cap sim, and it sounded much better than with cap sim on. Used a Michael Britt ir and allso tried some of the build in ones, but without it was much better. 
but an Update is, it only sounds good with my clean tone. With overdrive it sounds really really bad. 

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So your saying with just an Amp+Cab Block direct to PA it sounds worse than just an Amp block only with the same settings?

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Much better and clearer. Sounded dull and boring with cap on. But like I said, when I tried with overdrive, it was a really bad sound. 

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that sounds backwards than what I'd expect.  can you post the 2 versions of the preset(s) you were using?  with details of what your experiencing?  

 

if you just load up an Amp block, its a horrible sound that is very harsh and sounds nothing like any guitar sound I've ever tried to mimic.  I can either add a Cab block, IR block or change it to an Amp+Cab block and all of those will sound 1000% better with stock settings.  

 

 

the only time I'd expect it to sound dull and boring is if I was running an on board Cab (Amp+Cab, Cab Block  or IR) into a 'true' speaker cabinet (not FRFR, PA Speaker).  Your essentially EQ'ing the Amps sound twice and will sound like a wet blanket on your sound.  

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On 1/27/2021 at 4:09 PM, dacop13 said:

I also own a Kemper and a Helix and they pretty much work the same way when it comes to CAB. The first thing you want to understand it that there are multiple ways of using both units. From what I gather, it sounds like you were using Helix Cabs into a real Cabinet which will not give you good results. If you are running either unit into a real cabinet you must turn off all Cab simulation, the Kemper works the same way as the Helix. If you run the Helix or Kemper into a PA or FRFR speaker and turn the Cabs off, it will sound horrible. So if you plan on using a real cabinet with the Kemper or Helix, do not use any CABs within the units. When using a real cabinet with the Helix, you also have the choice of AMP or PREAMP, experiment with both.

 

Key point - When running either the Helix or Kemper through a real cabinet, turn off the CABS. When running through a PA or FRFR, choose a CAB.

 

I usually play through my physical amp & cab with the amp & cab sim turned on on the Stomp, sounds pretty good imo

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I am especially excited about buying a ticket to see Rusty Chainsaw play at the 2021 Tire Burnout Contest. Are tickets available yet?

  • Haha 1

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When using a clean tone then it´s ok to deactivate  the cab (please use a b).

You will get a more accoustic-guitar-like tone. If you prefer this sound, go for it.

 

When using a distorted sound just use a cab and it´s fine.

Distorted tones without a cab sound nasty and scratchy, icepicky.

 

Enjoy

 

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On 1/29/2021 at 3:05 AM, Elephantstomp said:

When using a clean tone then it´s ok to deactivate  the cab (please use a b).

You will get a more accoustic-guitar-like tone. If you prefer this sound, go for it.

 

When using a distorted sound just use a cab and it´s fine.

Distorted tones without a cab sound nasty and scratchy, icepicky.

 

Enjoy

 

 

+1 to all. It's amazing how good direct cleans can be, and how ear-hurtingly bad distorted tones without a cab are.

 

OP you could setup a patch where you have one snapshot with no cab at all for the clean sound you like, and then a snapshot where you both kick up the gain and turn on a stock cab, best of all worlds!

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The Kemper and now the Quad Cortex profiling capability is a great feature to have. But a profile is a snapshot of a particular sound. Yes, the Kemper and Quad Cortex provide additional gain and tone controls - but these are layered on top of the snapshot, they're not modeling the actual controls of the captured amp. I'm not saying this is bad, its just what it is. Given that we often set a guitar amp at particular settings and don't change it that often, a snapshot might not be that limiting. 

 

But I personally prefer the Helix approach of modeling the amp from the inside out instead of the profile outside in. Its essentially building the amp, but from digital rather than analog components. Quad Cortex seems to do a very good job of accurately capturing a particular tone snapshot Let's even stipulate that it would do a better job of capturing a specific amp and settings than a similar amp model in Helix could produce. That's great. But Helix give me the whole amp, not just a snapshot that can be tailored a bit. 

 

Ultimately both are useful. So I recommend adding a Quad Cortex to your Helix effects loop along with your HX Stomp and HX Effects!

 

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