L6 link vs xlr any difference in tone?

[Algomas]

So I'm following Richie's settings:

and already with only the amp and powercab active I noticed my tone isn't any where near his. His sounds great, mine thin and punchless. As with all my tones since I bought the damn thing..

 

I've checked the obvious stuff: getting the pc led in the yellow, volumes etc  and hence my conclusion is that either the difference is because of:

- different guitar

- L6 link (I) vs xlr (he?)

-both

 

So I figured I could rule out the L6link if some one here has tried both L6 and xlr and noticed any differences.

If so, I'm out buying a xlr cable, 

if not, I'm out to buying a better guitar (esp-ltd-ec300 with emg-hz currently)

 

 

[cruisinon2]

3 hours ago, Algomas said:

So I'm following Richie's settings:

and already with only the amp and powercab active I noticed my tone isn't any where near his. His sounds great, mine thin and punchless. As with all my tones since I bought the damn thing..

 

I've checked the obvious stuff: getting the pc led in the yellow, volumes etc  and hence my conclusion is that either the difference is because of:

- different guitar

- L6 link (I) vs xlr (he?)

-both

 

So I figured I could rule out the L6link if some one here has tried both L6 and xlr and noticed any differences.

If so, I'm out buying a xlr cable, 

if not, I'm out to buying a better guitar (esp-ltd-ec300 with emg-hz currently)

 

 

 

You can hook it up any way you want and it won't make any difference... no cable will be the magic bullet you're looking for. If that picture is any indication, what you're hearing in that video is a mic-ed Powercab, and I assume you're listening to yours live in the room... that makes all the difference in the world, and you're comparing apples to oranges. Take your favorite amp to a studio, play it standing few feet away in the live room, and then go listen to what the guy at the desk is hearing through the monitors. It will not be the same sound, and that's exactly what's going on here. The mic is but one in a long list of variables, and an enormous one at that. Then there's the guitar, pickups, the volume he's playing at (which is unknown with no way to verify) vs wherever your levels are, different listening environments, you with your fingers and him with his. 

 

Other people's patches are a waste of time... don't care how famous or accomplished they are. There's never any tonal continuity between what you hear on a demo video and what you get on your end. There is no drag and drop solution to tonal bliss, and it can't be purchased... you have to learn to dial in the sounds you want yourself. What ends up working for you, me, or in somebody's YouTube demo are more or less guaranteed to be entirely different.

[waymda]

Something to consider about how thin or otherwise you patches might sound to you is how loud you're running your powercab. I'm assuming you are using the speaker sim in the PC not FRFR (that would make a huge difference).

 

Later in the vid ritchie says he's playing with the PC at 85%.  If his signal is hot to the PC that'd be very very loud.

 

 

 

 

[waymda]

I pulled down his patches from the links under the video.

 

They are designed to be used with L6 Link and do run hot to the PowerCab.  They will set the cab to the right speaker sim so long as you have set the powercab to Remote: Preset (not Global). (you can see this where he's playing wiht the patches eg about 16 minute mark)

 

Running from the XLR outs will not set this!

 

They're not my cup of tea, but they sure aren't thin and punchless and get a lot bigger as you increase PC volume, with a real leap in perceived grunt from about 2 o'clock to 3 o'clock for me - and yes its loud.

 

The guitar I used was a variax so certainly not super hot on the input side.

[Algomas]

7 hours ago, waymda said:

I pulled down his patches from the links under the video.

 

They are designed to be used with L6 Link and do run hot to the PowerCab.  They will set the cab to the right speaker sim so long as you have set the powercab to Remote: Preset (not Global). (you can see this where he's playing wiht the patches eg about 16 minute mark)

 

Running from the XLR outs will not set this!

 

They're not my cup of tea, but they sure aren't thin and punchless and get a lot bigger as you increase PC volume, with a real leap in perceived grunt from about 2 o'clock to 3 o'clock for me - and yes its loud.

 

The guitar I used was a variax so certainly not super hot on the input side.

 

Cool so we know:

- he's using the L6 (although, theoretically  he could still be using the L6 and the xlr for sound right?)

- it sound great (even) with a (much cheaper) variax

 

 

[Algomas]

9 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

You can hook it up any way you want and it won't make any difference... no cable will be the magic bullet you're looking for. If that picture is any indication, what you're hearing in that video is a mic-ed Powercab, and I assume you're listening to yours live in the room... that makes all the difference in the world, and you're comparing apples to oranges. Take your favorite amp to a studio, play it standing few feet away in the live room, and then go listen to what the guy at the desk is hearing through the monitors. It will not be the same sound, and that's exactly what's going on here. The mic is but one in a long list of variables, and an enormous one at that. Then there's the guitar, pickups, the volume he's playing at (which is unknown with no way to verify) vs wherever your levels are, different listening environments, you with your fingers and him with his. 

 

Other people's patches are a waste of time... don't care how famous or accomplished they are. There's never any tonal continuity between what you hear on a demo video and what you get on your end. There is no drag and drop solution to tonal bliss, and it can't be purchased... you have to learn to dial in the sounds you want yourself. What ends up working for you, me, or in somebody's YouTube demo are more or less guaranteed to be entirely different.

 

Sure..but its not just the audio that gives away the fact there's a huge differences in tone quality..

I've noticed with many of these videos (be it dialing in..or reviews), that even with a preset containing only an amp and cab (or speaker) it already sounds great. And that's not just me hearing it (i.e through mic, youtube compression and what not) but also the reactions from the dudes themselves. They all go: "wow! this sounds great"    etc.

wheres I go: " wtf did I spend all this money for.."

 

Same Helix, same powercab+, L6 link apparently..It must be my crappy esp ltd ec 300 then I guess?
 

[waymda]

1 hour ago, Algomas said:

 

Cool so we know:

- he's using the L6 (although, theoretically  he could still be using the L6 and the xlr for sound right?)

- it sound great (even) with a (much cheaper) variax

 

 

 

No, using the XLR makes no sense as it would not set the PC+ to the right cab setting.

 

Do know how to use the modelled speakers in the PC+ and the difference between the L6 link and an XLR? I ask as your replies in this and other posts suggest limited experience with guitars and amps in general. But I may be wrong.

 

With that in mind - do you have gear you're happy with the tone? A tube amp/cab or similar? The below suggests to me you should stick with that rather than persisting with trying to tone match YouTube videos with the Helix and PC+.

 

In previous posts you mention being a newbie, and then seem to show a lack of experience with guitars. If this is genuinely the case then gear alone will not get you the tone you want to hear. Much of tone is down to you, your technique and how well you can use the gear you have.

 

Your conclusion that your guitar is at fault may be erroneous. 

 

1 hour ago, Algomas said:

I've noticed with many of these videos (be it dialing in..or reviews), that even with a preset containing only an amp and cab (or speaker) it already sounds great. And that's not just me hearing it (i.e through mic, youtube compression and what not) but also the reactions from the dudes themselves. They all go: "wow! this sounds great"    etc.

wheres I go: " wtf did I spend all this money for.."

 

 

[cruisinon2]

10 hours ago, Algomas said:

 

Sure..but its not just the audio that gives away the fact there's a huge differences in tone quality..

I've noticed with many of these videos (be it dialing in..or reviews), that even with a preset containing only an amp and cab (or speaker) it already sounds great. And that's not just me hearing it (i.e through mic, youtube compression and what not) but also the reactions from the dudes themselves. They all go: "wow! this sounds great"    etc.

wheres I go: " wtf did I spend all this money for.."
 

 

Yes, exactly. This underscores everything I've already said... you're not hearing what they're hearing, period... and you never will if all you do is replicate whatever settings they're using on their end. Plus, everyone has a different definition of what "this sounds great" means, and there's no way anyone can possibly fathom what some guy in a video is hearing in the room he's standing in... all you can do is guess. Perception is very much an individual phenomenon. You might love a tone that I hate, or vice versa... but so what? Nobody's "right" or "wrong".

 

There's a steep leaving curve with modelers. We all went through it. I would suggest watching some of Jason Sadites' Helix tutorials on YouTube. He goes through the reasoning behind the settings he chooses, but he's careful to emphasize that fixating on specific numbers is pointless. That's what you need... the how's and why's that  various parameters do what they do, and ways to manipulate them to achieve a certain goal. Mimicking individual settings verbatim and expecting 1:1 continuity with a tone in a youtube video is a fantasy, and it will will get you nowhere. It won't sound the same to you no matter what you do, for all the reasons I've already laid out. You have to experiment and do it yourself. There's no way around the grunt work... and yes, it sucks. It's tedious and time consuming. But you only have to do it once.

 

And no, there's nothing wrong with your guitar. Going out and buying something else wouldn't provide the secret sauce either... it would only introduce yet another variable.

 

Spend some time learning the unit, and you'll get there. I didn't gig with my Helix for a solid 2 months after I got it, until I was super comfortable with everything... and I had already been using other modelers for years at that point. These aren't plug and play devices...

[Algomas]

12 hours ago, waymda said:

 

No, using the XLR makes no sense as it would not set the PC+ to the right cab setting.

 

Do know how to use the modelled speakers in the PC+ and the difference between the L6 link and an XLR? I ask as your replies in this and other posts suggest limited experience with guitars and amps in general. But I may be wrong.

 

With that in mind - do you have gear you're happy with the tone? A tube amp/cab or similar? The below suggests to me you should stick with that rather than persisting with trying to tone match YouTube videos with the Helix and PC+.

 

In previous posts you mention being a newbie, and then seem to show a lack of experience with guitars. If this is genuinely the case then gear alone will not get you the tone you want to hear. Much of tone is down to you, your technique and how well you can use the gear you have.

 

Your conclusion that your guitar is at fault may be erroneous. 

 

 

I only have the l6, I don’t know if you can or can’t use them both. Ie l6 for switching and xlr for sound.
 

So I don’t know if there’s any difference in tone. I did read that there’s a difference in output levels and a difference concerning the global settings (works on xlr, not on l6). Hence why I am asking for if some did an a/b test. Can’t blame me for asking. 

 

About yr other remarks: yes i once had a mess boogie and a boss gt8. Worked pretty well together. I let the mesa do the clean and crunch and added stuff from the gt on top of that. 
I choose the helix and pc+ to het a more versatile sound as I’m planning on playing in a cover band. Btw: I play for about 20yrs, no way I’m a great player though but for reference: I can get up to about 90-95% accuracy at stuff like Metallica and guns and roses with about 5 evenings practice. I don’t know if that’s good or not or why i should care. 

I’m used to a much simpeler rig though..just trying to get up to speed..

 

Also, the main question was fairly straightforward imo: did any one do a comparison between xlr and l6? 

 

 

 

 

[Algomas]

6 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Yes, exactly. This underscores everything I've already said... you're not hearing what they're hearing, period... and you never will if all you do is replicate whatever settings they're using on their end. Plus, everyone has a different definition of what "this sounds great" means, and there's no way anyone can possibly fathom what some guy in a video is hearing in the room he's standing in... all you can do is guess. Perception is very much an individual phenomenon. You might love a tone that I hate, or vice versa... but so what? Nobody's "right" or "wrong".

 

There's a steep leaving curve with modelers. We all went through it. I would suggest watching some of Jason Sadites' Helix tutorials on YouTube. He goes through the reasoning behind the settings he chooses, but he's careful to emphasize that fixating on specific numbers is pointless. That's what you need... the how's and why's that  various parameters do what they do, and ways to manipulate them to achieve a certain goal. Mimicking individual settings verbatim and expecting 1:1 continuity with a tone in a youtube video is a fantasy, and it will will get you nowhere. It won't sound the same to you no matter what you do, for all the reasons I've already laid out. You have to experiment and do it yourself. There's no way around the grunt work... and yes, it sucks. It's tedious and time consuming. But you only have to do it once.

 

And no, there's nothing wrong with your guitar. Going out and buying something else wouldn't provide the secret sauce either... it would only introduce yet another variable.

 

Spend some time learning the unit, and you'll get there. I didn't gig with my Helix for a solid 2 months after I got it, until I was super comfortable with everything... and I had already been using other modelers for years at that point. These aren't plug and play devices...

I agree on a lot of stuff like having to learn the ins and outs to get great sounds as well as the fact that a lot of the tone is in the fingers.

but still: I see a guy strumming a single chord with 1 amp at default settings and goes “wow”. 
imo the biggest difference is then the guitar (pickups mostly) and stuff like how it’s recorded and how I hear it through my speakers at home. I’ve read pretty similar experiences online about emghz humbuckers sounding dull, so imo that’s a big variable. 
The l6 vs xlr is a small chance but would be interesting to see if some one did actual test. 
 

[cruisinon2]

17 hours ago, Algomas said:

 stuff like how it’s recorded and how I hear it through my speakers at home.

 

This is 99.97% of it right here.

 

17 hours ago, Algomas said:

but still: I see a guy strumming a single chord with 1 amp at default settings and goes “wow”. 

 

 

Again... one man's "wow" is another's "sounds like boiled $hit", and you can't point to anyone's emotional reaction as conclusive "proof" of anything. Had you been standing right next to him, you could just as easily have found it to be awful, no matter what his reaction was... and there's absolutely no way to know.

 

Subjective assessments of sound are exactly that... subjective. Plus, you still have absolutely no clue what Demo Guy is hearing in the room. If this is your yardstick, you'll be spinning your wheels forever. Instead of trying to duplicate what makes somebody else say "wow", figure out what it'll take for you to have that same reaction.... because that's all that matters.

[PierM]

39 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

Again... one man's "wow" is another's "sounds like boiled $hit", and you still have no idea what Demo Guy is hearing in the room. If this is your yardstick, you'll be spinning your wheels forever. Instead of trying to duplicate what makes somebody else say "wow", figure out what it'll take for you to have that same reaction.... because that's all that matters.

 

Totally true. In fact that entire video sounds totally garbage to my ears, taste, perception etc etc etc.... I mean, I hear nothing to write home about.

 

As for the OP about that AES/EBU Vs XLR, no, there is no tone difference. Nothing we could isolate in a youtube audio stream.

 

Let me also add that trying to share how an amp sounds in the room, with people not actually in that room, is a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Algomas]

So after a few days doing research, talking to other guitarist and fiddling around with my rig I figured I'll come back to this topic and write down my experiences in the hope it helps other helix/powercab starters struggling to get a decent sound.

 

First of all tnx to the responders above for their comments and ideas!

 

 

Anyways, as I said before I agree with the variables as: " its in the hands", "different rooms/recording/playback" etc. But:

 

- when you spend that amount of money, you shouldn't have to fiddle for weeks to get a decent sound. A great sound? Sure..decent..nope.

 

-line6 probably wants to make things as easy as possible to get a decent starting sound to work with with as less effort as possible in order to not demotivate people and scare of new buyers. (Again: decent, not necessarily great sound.)

 

-if you have the same modeler and (only!) amp + same settings (ie no effects etc) as the person in a YT video and his/hers tone sounds great whereas yrs sucks, even considering all those extra variables like mic, room, YT compression etc. Its worthwhile to look at the other main variable: yr guiter/pickups.
Maybe not if this is the case with 1 to a few videos, but if it happens constantly and you cant get a decent sound any ways (eg. its always dull/lifeless) then yes, yr guitar is probably the first thing to look at. Not yr hands, not yr technique, not the carpet on the floor.. Tone is for the most part: effects, amp and guitar. And for such a rig it shouldn't sound too far of of what you see on YT. Same? no. Ball park/starting point, yes.

Check also the reviews on the gear, if all those players are that enthusiastic whereas you are not: its probably not because of you.

 

 

So I decided to look at the main variable left: my guitar. After reading a lot of negative reviews on emg-hz I decided to fiddle with the pickup and pole heights following some YT tutorials.

And wow..did that make a difference! Those dull sounding patches came to life! More punch and clarity!
It's still not where I want it to be, I have a lot of tweaking left and I might still decide to get different pickups or a better quality guitar. But at least I' now can start at a decent point.

 

Summary for newbies:

- A helix & powercab should sound decent/workable with little effort. If not: try (borrow?) different guitars and/or adjust your elements. If that fails, then try a different player to try yr rig ;-)

- Don't get discouraged by people online, be stubborn and curious:-)

 

Cheers