HX Stomp issue with a load box and IRs

[AlchemyStrat]

Hello, I'm having some problems with my Stomp when I use it exclusively as an IR loader. The signal chain is GTR > AMP > LoadBox > HX > PC, so nothing special here. The issue is that my dry signal gets through not matter what, so I hear the raw load box sound despite the mix is 100% in the IR block (the only one i'm using for this application). The weird thing is that the dry signal I'm hearing is sort of indipendent from the settings on the Stomp and it doesn't change in level when I switch between Inst/Line or move the volume knob, even at ZERO it gets through and of course I'm expecting the Stomp to be dead silent. Do you have any help? Thanks!

[Schmalle]

Check what sources you hear via USB. Read page 56 'USB Audio' of the current manual for details.

[AlchemyStrat]

Thanks for the reply, I forgot to mention that I'm not using it as a recording interface and I'm not using the USB port, so the HX audio outs go to a different interface . I might add that I tried different cables, different Load Boxes, but the problem persists. It doesn't happen if I plug directly my guitar and in that case there's no "dry bleed" but when I use it with a Load Box it does in every setting... the only thing that's different is the type of signal that's going to the HX Stomp inputs.

[SimonGugala]

I have this same issue when trying to use Hx Effects as a ir after a load box too (rock crusher).  There is always some raw amp sound mixed in even when I disable the return that the load box is sending signal to.  For clarity, I stripped the complexity of my board to see if this worked.  I plugged into the amp directly, to load box, line out to the return 2 (this is the input I would use when using the amp as a send/return block).  I have a return 2 block that feeds an IR and goes out the helix to a big sky that goes stereo into my interface.  When I turn down the line send from the rock crusher, the fuzz sound still remains.  When I di the amp into my interface and use and IR through a plugin, it works great with no issues on the rockcrusher send so I don't think that is the issue.  If I can get this to work, I can have a stereo di setup using a real guitar amp head (3rd power and a fender bassman) so I'd love to get it working.

 

Also, this is still a problem even if I disconnect the usb (using hx edit)

[rd2rk]

From the manual page 33 "Impulse Response Settings"

 

MIX

Blends the IR signal with the dry signal passed through the IR block. When set to 0%, the path bypasses the IR completely. When set to 100%, the entire path is fed through the IR, and no dry signal is heard.

 

So, yes, at 0% you WILL hear the DRY signal. BUT, at 100%, how are you isolating the DRY signal? Because, AFAIK, this is the way that all of the MIX settings work on ALL of the FX. If I put a rad reverb in there at 100%, I don't hear ANY dry signal. With a subtle effect such as an IR, at 100% there's no way I can tell if there's any dry signal still mixed with the sound.

 

Try this. Even with the IR at it's default -18db, the level difference between mix at 0% and 100% was pretty big. Try upping the IR Level to 0db (unity) and compensating for the overall output level increase by lowering the Output Block level (so as not to overload the AI Inputs). Are you still hearing it?

[AlchemyStrat]

Checking the mix in the IR block is the first thing I did, and it was always set 100%. Even if it wasn't set completely wet, there's no reason I hear this unprocessed Load Box DI sound that isn't affected by the volume of the blocks or the volume knob, with everything at - infinite that unpleasant sound is present at costant level like it's parallel in a mixer. Like the user above SimonGugala I noticed that if I turn down the Load Box line send it doesn't affect it either, and like him when going straight to my interface with IR plugins it works as it should. That's how I narrowed down the problem to the HX, because pratically I tried and changed everything around it.

[Schmalle]

9 hours ago, SimonGugala said:

I have this same issue when trying to use Hx Effects as a ir after a load box too (rock crusher).  There is always some raw amp sound mixed in even when I disable the return that the load box is sending signal to.  For clarity, I stripped the complexity of my board to see if this worked.  I plugged into the amp directly, to load box, line out to the return 2 (this is the input I would use when using the amp as a send/return block).  I have a return 2 block that feeds an IR and goes out the helix to a big sky that goes stereo into my interface.  When I turn down the line send from the rock crusher, the fuzz sound still remains.  When I di the amp into my interface and use and IR through a plugin, it works great with no issues on the rockcrusher send so I don't think that is the issue.  If I can get this to work, I can have a stereo di setup using a real guitar amp head (3rd power and a fender bassman) so I'd love to get it working.

 

Also, this is still a problem even if I disconnect the usb (using hx edit)

Make shure Global Settings > Ins/Outs > Return Type is set to Return. If it's set to Aux In the return signal will be directly forwarded to the outputs.

[SimonGugala]

2 hours ago, Schmalle said:

Make shure Global Settings > Ins/Outs > Return Type is set to Return. If it's set to Aux In the return signal will be directly forwarded to the outputs.

 

On the Hx Effects the Global Settings> In/Outs only controls the instrument/line toggle for outputs.  There is no return type.  I'm guessing that is a helix or stomp setting that you are referring to.

[SimonGugala]

3 hours ago, AlchemyStrat said:

Checking the mix in the IR block is the first thing I did, and it was always set 100%. Even if it wasn't set completely wet, there's no reason I hear this unprocessed Load Box DI sound that isn't affected by the volume of the blocks or the volume knob, with everything at - infinite that unpleasant sound is present at costant level like it's parallel in a mixer. Like the user above SimonGugala I noticed that if I turn down the Load Box line send it doesn't affect it either, and like him when going straight to my interface with IR plugins it works as it should. That's how I narrowed down the problem to the HX, because pratically I tried and changed everything around it.

 

This is my exact problem too.  When even when I bypass the input to the Hx Effects so NOTHING is hitting the IR block, the unprocessed signal is still present at a low level.  When the IR is on, although it is much louder, it still mixes with this phantom level of unprocessed signal giving the tone a fuzzy top end when the amp head is distorted.  Completely unusable until that is fixed.

[rd2rk]

SimonGugala - If you're convinced that your problem with HXFX is a bug that needs to be "fixed", you should contact support. This thread was started by someone with the HXS, and while the problems may seem related, trying to troubleshoot both boxes in one thread is becoming confusing for all involved.

 

AlchemyStrat - As I mentioned, I do not hear what you are hearing. A line in signal is just that, whether it's coming from the LINE OUT of your loadbox or from the FX Send of my amp makes no difference. You'll always hear it when the IR mix is at 0%, but should not hear it as a distinctly separate sound at 100%. Did you try replacing the IR with a reverb at 100% to see if you still hear the direct sound (would point to a problem with the IR block mix function)? Did you try my suggestion about raising the IR signal vs the direct signal to see if that helps? We're remote troubleshooting here, and things like that can give us hints as to what might be happening.

 

Also, did you try Schmalle's suggestion about the Aux/Return setting?

 

Also might help if you attach a copy of the preset that you're using so we can more accurately attempt to duplicate the problem.

[Schmalle]

2 hours ago, SimonGugala said:

On the Hx Effects the Global Settings> In/Outs only controls the instrument/line toggle for outputs.  There is no return type.  I'm guessing that is a helix or stomp setting that you are referring to.

Sorry, my answer applies to HX Stomp only.

[SimonGugala]

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

SimonGugala - If you're convinced that your problem with HXFX is a bug that needs to be "fixed", you should contact support. This thread was started by someone with the HXS, and while the problems may seem related, trying to troubleshoot both boxes in one thread is becoming confusing for all involved.

 

AlchemyStrat - As I mentioned, I do not hear what you are hearing. A line in signal is just that, whether it's coming from the LINE OUT of your loadbox or from the FX Send of my amp makes no difference. You'll always hear it when the IR mix is at 0%, but should not hear it as a distinctly separate sound at 100%. Did you try replacing the IR with a reverb at 100% to see if you still hear the direct sound (would point to a problem with the IR block mix function)? Did you try my suggestion about raising the IR signal vs the direct signal to see if that helps? We're remote troubleshooting here, and things like that can give us hints as to what might be happening.

 

Also, did you try Schmalle's suggestion about the Aux/Return setting?

 

Also might help if you attach a copy of the preset that you're using so we can more accurately attempt to duplicate the problem.

I'll start a different post if that seems more helpful.  Good luck @AlchemyStrat.  I have your problem and feel your pain!

[AlchemyStrat]

4 hours ago, rd2rk said:

SimonGugala - If you're convinced that your problem with HXFX is a bug that needs to be "fixed", you should contact support. This thread was started by someone with the HXS, and while the problems may seem related, trying to troubleshoot both boxes in one thread is becoming confusing for all involved.

 

AlchemyStrat - As I mentioned, I do not hear what you are hearing. A line in signal is just that, whether it's coming from the LINE OUT of your loadbox or from the FX Send of my amp makes no difference. You'll always hear it when the IR mix is at 0%, but should not hear it as a distinctly separate sound at 100%. Did you try replacing the IR with a reverb at 100% to see if you still hear the direct sound (would point to a problem with the IR block mix function)? Did you try my suggestion about raising the IR signal vs the direct signal to see if that helps? We're remote troubleshooting here, and things like that can give us hints as to what might be happening.

 

Also, did you try Schmalle's suggestion about the Aux/Return setting?

 

Also might help if you attach a copy of the preset that you're using so we can more accurately attempt to duplicate the problem.

I perfectly know it's just a line level signal, but I have this problem only with the load box, I tried what you describe. My Global Settings are like Schmalle said and I tried to use the return input instead of the main one that I normally use but the result is the same. I can post a preset for sure if you feel like it could be helpful, but honestly you can totally replicate it quicker because I use just one block (IR 2048), mix 100%, the level of the block just raises the processed sound (of course I tried it at 0dB) but it doesn't affect the Dry bleed level in any way so that's still present. It does it with every Impulse Response I use, of different brands too.

You're right, it's only a line level signal and it doesn't appear to show the problem when used in my amp FX loop. I'm scratching my head because the chain is so simple (GTR > AMP > LoadBox > HX > PC Interface) that I can't understand why it's not working properly.

 

 

@SimonGugala Thank you and good luck to you too!
 

[Schmalle]

@AlchemyStrat Post a patch of which you are sure the problem occurs.

[SimonGugala]

@AlchemyStrat  I have been working on this problem and I think I found a fix.

 

When you plug a 1/4" cable into your interface you have a ground connecting from the interface, guitar head, as well as your pedalboard.  I had a hard time finding out if there is an isolated ground in my equipment but I'm guessing there isn't generally and I was getting this bleed too as well as a high feedback hum.  Instead of plugging into a hi-z input I went through a direct box that lifted the ground and it solved the problem (eliminated the ground loop and weird bleed).  I think adding an amp head into the equation brings in another ground connection that can cause problems.  I intend to but an ebtech ground isolator to use on my amp head for live.   Another thing I would recommend is taking the return of your amp load box and starting it down at -20.  You have to use the INST setting on the send, which makes the return do the same which is too hot for LINE return from the load box.  You can have the send/return block on a switch so you can bypass it in and out to match levels.

 

Hope this helps.