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Do Helix floor 1.0 Amps get improvements?


spangberg
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With modeling realism improvements that continue to get better and better, since Helix has been around for several years now, I'm wondering if someone on the inside of Line6 can let us know if the original amps from the initial release of Helix Floor have been revisited at all, or have they not been touched since day 1?

For example would the new 3.0 Princess amp be more "authentic" compared to the 1.0 Twin, for example?  To get the best out of recent modeling "science," is it recommended to base your setlists using amps from newer firmware updates, since audio capture only improves over time.  Does that make any sense?  Just wondering. Thanks  -Tim

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The only improvements might be some tighter or or more efficient programming as firmware doesn't improve anything in terms of the underlying capabilities of the DSP engine.  The Helix models simply consist of mathematical simulations of the measured inputs and outputs of the real world circuits in a given amp which are computed by the DSP chip, nothing to do with audio.  Audio simulation is all about sampling such as in the case of keyboards or electronic drums, not modeling.  They may have, over time, figured out ways to do those computations more efficiently, but the end result of the computations would still have to match with the original circuit measurements in order to be an accurate model.  But I would imagine a lot of that kind of stuff was done during what was referred to as the Helix CORE firmware updates a couple of years ago.

 

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As DunedinDragon indicated most updates on existing models will be to DSP efficiency. That or bug fixing. The problem with "improving" existing models is that you can change the sound of the block so profoundly that presets made with it prior to the change can suffer dramatically. As they improve their ability to model as the product matures, and they have said as much on TGP, they have more of a tendency to add new models rather than upgrade old ones as not to impact presets made with them. 

 

I would imagine their threshold for applying modeling advances to older blocks is to some extent how extensive a change in their sound the improvement might have. I would not be surprised if there have been some subtle enhancements to some preexisting models along the way that went totally unnoticed.  Who knows though, maybe at some point they will more radically update some of the older amp models, more likely as an additionally available "version 2" amp or effect for those who want to take advantage of the latest and greatest.

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16 minutes ago, CraigGT said:

 

Why do you think a new one would be better?

 

The amps are all over the place, the PV Panama is really old I think? There's threads about it in the POD HD forum I think. The settings of the amp are crazy, you have to resort to some extreme settings to get the tone you would get from the real one. In the older models like the PV Panama and the Cali Rectifire the Master Knob makes a huge difference in the tone, like if you would tweak from 3.3 to 3.7 you can hear the difference. But in the newer models like the Revv or the Archon it doesn't? It's really confusing. It's such an important amp! I would really like to see it redone, or a 5150 II or 5150 III if they like that better.

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1 hour ago, vstrattomusic said:

 

The amps are all over the place, the PV Panama is really old I think? There's threads about it in the POD HD forum I think. The settings of the amp are crazy, you have to resort to some extreme settings to get the tone you would get from the real one. In the older models like the PV Panama and the Cali Rectifire the Master Knob makes a huge difference in the tone, like if you would tweak from 3.3 to 3.7 you can hear the difference. But in the newer models like the Revv or the Archon it doesn't? It's really confusing. It's such an important amp! I would really like to see it redone, or a 5150 II or 5150 III if they like that better.

 

I would think those type of differences would be due to the difference in the actual circuitry of the amps involved.  They're supposed to act differently because they're modeling circuitry which is different.

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18 hours ago, spangberg said:

Does that make any sense?  Just wondering.


The next firmware update, expected soon, should have some improvements to to the modelling engine. If that is simply making the code and processing more efficient, we don’t know, and to make it more intriguing this is a quote from Digital Igloo over on TGP earlier this week.

 

It affects most (but not all) models to a differing degree and can literally be explained in a few words, so don't expect a holy grail or nothin'.

The day 3.10 drops:

  • XX% of users: "I can't tell a difference! Bunch of worthless hype, Line 6!"
  • XX% of users: "I can totally tell a difference! Thanks, Line 6!"

Clear as mud, eh?

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

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On 3/13/2021 at 2:42 PM, datacommando said:


The next firmware update, expected soon, should have some improvements to to the modelling engine. If that is simply making the code and processing more efficient, we don’t know, and to make it more intriguing this is a quote from Digital Igloo over on TGP earlier this week.

 

It affects most (but not all) models to a differing degree and can literally be explained in a few words, so don't expect a holy grail or nothin'.

The day 3.10 drops:

  • XX% of users: "I can't tell a difference! Bunch of worthless hype, Line 6!"
  • XX% of users: "I can totally tell a difference! Thanks, Line 6!"

Clear as mud, eh?

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

First thing I thought when I heard this, was "Ok, they're gonna introduce the mic/speaker cone offset to the previous algorithm". This is the only change I can think of, which is not breaking old models (where default would sound as before, I guess perfect centered), and also which would probably fit (almost) all amps, again - assuming they are using the correct math instead arbitrary numbers in arbitrary equations (which is not, afaik)

 

Wild speculation, but would make sense to me...

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1 hour ago, PierM said:

Ok, they're gonna introduce the mic/speaker cone offset to the previous algorithm


I would have liked that to be included right from the start. Most other modellers have this function - it’’s even in AmpliTube. IIRC, Eric has previously said that Helix was always intended to be extended by firmware updates. He mentioned that everything in all the firmware updates so far are things they wanted to put into the HX originally, but if they had waited until it was fully loaded, then we would still be waiting for the hardware to be released.

 

Let’s hope that mic position was on the list of things they needed to finish.

 

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