mholubec Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Hi guys! I have a question for you all. I'm trying to setup 4 cord method with a Randall NB112. Using snapshots to switch the channels on the amp. I went through several tutorials and still can't get it to work. Can someone give me the settings I need in command center and global midi settings to get this to work? Here is a link to the Randall manual if it helps. I know both Helix LT and the Randall both work midi with other devices just not each other. Thanks https://www.randallamplifiers.com/.../02/NBKING112_v2.pdf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 A typically terrible description of the MIDI implementation. The manual states that the "EMB" board accepts either PC or CC messages, whichever is received first, but not both. It's not at all clear if that's per command series (can't combine), per preset, per boot, or forever, or if it can be reset. Nor is it stated that the 7-pin MIDI connector is compatible with 5-pin MIDI. USUALLY the extra pins are there simply to provide LED power to a footswitch, and simply ignored in a 5-pin setup, but....? You say you found several tutorials on doing this. I couldn't find any. Links? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mholubec Posted March 19, 2021 Author Share Posted March 19, 2021 Thanks for the reply. The tutorials were for other midi switchable amps and Helix. I can switch the Randall via midi using a old Boss GT-8 using a 5 pin cable. That uses program changes(not CC). The Helix will switch the Boss GT-8 via midi.(Bank up down and Presets). I tried to duplicate the program changes in the GT-8 in the Helix, so the amp's midi would think it was the GT-8 but I couldn't get that to work either. I can't help but think I'm missing something in global settings or the command center. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 In Global Settings>MIDI/Tap set MIDI PC Send OFF. Set the amp's MIDI Channel to match the Helix Base Channel (Global Settings>MIDI/TAP>Base Channel default = 1). In a Helix Preset, in Command Center, in Snapshot 1 set Instant Command 1 (IC1) to MIDI CC 56 (Clean, Channel 1) with a Value of 127. In Snapshot 2 set IC1 to CC 57 Value 127 (Channel 2). In Snapshot 3 set IC1 to CC 58 Value 127 (Channel 3). Then SAVE the Preset on the Snapshot that calls the Channel desired for that Snapshot. Of course, you can set IC1 in any Snapshot to any channel, whatever serves the preset best. Above is just to test the function. Just remember to always SAVE the preset on the Snapshot that calls the channel you want the preset to use by default when the preset is loaded. Also, once you've set the IC in a Snapshot, SAVE the preset before moving on to the next Snapshot. If Global Settings>Preferences>Snapshot Edits is set to RECALL, then you can just SAVE the preset after you've set all the snapshots. You can also do this using PCs instead of CCs, but the manual isn't really clear on the process and, if it works the way I think it does, it's less of a hassle to use CCs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mholubec Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 I got everything set still does not work. I even tried setting up an instant command for each amp channel/snap shot (leaving one snap active per instant command). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 11 minutes ago, mholubec said: I got everything set still does not work. I even tried setting up an instant command for each amp channel/snap shot (leaving one snap active per instant command). Attach your preset and I'll look at it. I'm not near my Helix, but I have my HXS, so don't send a big preset - 6 blocks max, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmalle Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 After setting Global Settings > MIDI/Tap to MIDI PC Send OFF, did you repower your amp? Otherwise it might have been in PC mode and therefore didn't react to CC messages. Did you set the dip switches on the amp to MIDI channel 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mholubec Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 Attached is my stripped down preset copy(with a separate instant command for each amp channel CC). Amp dip switch is on midi 1 as when I plug in the Boss GT-8 on midi channel 1 it works perfect. The amp cycled off several times. I really appreciate the help guys! RANDALL 4 CORD.hlx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Your preset had 3 ICs assigned, and the ICs in SS2 and 3 weren't saved properly. When your preset loads, it sends the ICs in order, and does it again every time you switch Snapshots. You only need 1 IC, saved with different CC#s in each Snapshot. Remember to SAVE the preset after making changes in each Snapshot. Also, be sure you've turned OFF MIDI PC SEND in Global Settings>MIDI/Tap. Try it now, and don't forget to reboot the amp before trying it. RANDALL 4 CORD Mod.hlx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mholubec Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 I'll keep you posted... I won't get to this until tomorrow. Thanks again for all your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mholubec Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 I didn't have any luck . I attached my patch for you to check settings are correct if you don't mind. RANDALL 4 CORD.hlx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 You're still not saving correctly. Do this. Go to Global Settings>Preferences and set SNAPSHOT EDITS to RECALL. Do that, and as long as you save the preset on the desired default Snapshot, all your changes will be saved. Try the attached. RANDALL 4 CORD Mod2.hlx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mholubec Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 I used your preset and set Global Settings>Preferences and set SNAPSHOT EDITS to RECALL and still did not work. Any thought on why it works with boss gt-8 and the amp? On the gt-8 I use Bank 4, Patch 1, 2, 3 ,4 and it works with the amp. Can I recreate those midi sends? What would the global and command setting be? https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/GT-8_OM.pdf I so appreciate your willingness to help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Test this. Put a MIDI monitor on your computer and make sure that your helix is actually sending the MIDI messages. You'll be testing MIDI over USB, so make sure that is enabled. MIDI over the 5-pin is always enabled, but if you have a separate 5-pin MIDI interface, try it that way to make sure that's working as intended. If your Helix is sending MIDI over the 5-pin, then either the Randall docs suck SO bad that we're totally getting it wrong, or you've got the Randall's MIDI channel wrong, or something. As for why the GT-8 works, maybe it's sending in OMNI (all channels) mode. That's all I can think of on that. MIDI is MIDI and if it works from one device it will work on an identically configured device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mholubec Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 I will get to work on that... but I can switch banks/presets from Helix to GT-8 via midi...is that what you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Also, with the MIDI monitor, check what the GT8 is sending on the Bank/patches that work. If the GT8 is sending PCs instead of CCs, then we'll try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 I had a quick look at the GT8 manual. If your GT8 is using the factory settings: MIDI Receive Channel = 1 MIDI Transmit Channel = MIDI Receive Channel (1) MIDI PC Out = ON (transmits default PC#s when GT8 preset is loaded) Bank 4 Presets send: 1 = PC#13 2 = PC#14 3 = PC#15 4 = PC#16 Here's your Helix Preset set up to send: SS1 = PC#13 SS2 = PC#14 SS3 = PC#15 I'm doing this on my Stomp, so 3 Snapshots is all you get. RANDALL 4 CORD Mod3.hlx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mholubec Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 I tried your PC Patch and that didn't work either. I have attached midi monitor pics for Helix Snaps 1,2,3,and 4 . Also midi monitor pics of GT8 Program 1,2,3,and 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 On MIDI Channel 16 it's sending PCs 12, 13, and 14. What that means is that the GT8 numbers it's PCs 0-127, and your amp recognizes PCs numbered 1-128. Change your Base Channel to MIDI Channel 16 and the preset (mod3) should work 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mholubec Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 SUCCESS! It works. Thank You Thank You Thank You! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 YAY!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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