Can't get Pod Go to sound good through real cabinet.

[Pimmert]

I've bought a Pod Go some time ago and I can get pretty awsome tones through my headphones. But when I run it through my cabinet, the same preset (with the cabinets turned off) sounds really different and I can't get a really good tone out of it. I use the 'amp out' output into the fx loop return of a bandamp meteor, which is plugged into a Randall 4x12 XL (on the back of the bandamp it says min. 8 ohms and it is plugged into the 16 ohm input of the cab with a good speaker cable). Is it the poweramp of the bandamp that makes it sound so different, or is it just the 'amp in the room' sound that throws me off? Or even something different? Can anybody help my? 

[voxman55]

Do you mean the 20w Joyo Bantamp Meteor?  Personally, I don't put multi Fx pedals through amps because generally I don't like the tone, even through the FX loop return. Although you're using it as a pure power-amp, so you don't get all the preamp colouring, it still colours your tone.  Some amps are better than others obviously, and ditto cabs you go through. 

 

So, here's a common fallacy - 'I've got a real cab so I need to turn the cab model off' - right? Well, no - it's all down to personal taste and there are no absolute rights & wrongs. .  When you are hearing your Pod Go through headphones, with a good set you should be getting close to a flat response so that when you have the cab models turned on, you are hearing much closer to how eg a mic'd Marshall Plexi through a 4x12 Greenback cab will sound.  Plus you can fine tune the cab to taste with mic type, distance, frequency adjustments, and even boosting the dB output.  But when you go through a real cab, it will sound very different because it's completely different to the cab model you've been using ie there is no Randall 4x12 cab in Pod Go! 

 

But especially if you want to turn cab models off and hear your real cab tone at its best, the single most important tonal tool you have in  your Pod Go to get the best out of an external cab is...(drum roll...) an EQ.  It's already a fixed block in Pod Go, so use it to your advantage, to shape your tone. If it's too bassy, raise the higher and mid frequencies and lower the bottom end.  Learning to use EQ, choosing the best type for your needs, setting it, and experimenting with its position in the signal chain, output levels etc, is ABSOLUTELY KEY.  EQ type is less important eg  although a graphic v parametric EQ work a little differently they both do pretty much the same thing albeit in slightly different ways.  Really investing some time to learn about EQ  and tone shaping will be, I promise you, the number one best time investment you can make.  Whilst not exactly the same thing, a cab model or IR is essentially just a type of EQ.  

 

So, my first recommendation - with cab models off, use an EQ to help shape your tone from your real cab.  Second recommendation -  try putting the cab models back on, raise the dB output to eg 2-3dB for a 'bigger' feel, add on say 15-25% early relic, start with a 57 dynamic mic and experiment with distance, and mic type.  And you'll get a way nearer tone to your headphones than turning your cab off.  And still use your EQ to shape your tone.  As I said, I don't generally put my MFX through an amp, but when I do, I tend to leave the cab model on.  

 

This is why Pod Go is not plug and play. Pod Go is a tool - and a very sophisticated & powerful one.  But it is incredibly versatile - you just have to invest time to learn what it can really do.  Too many users expect instant gratification, dial in high gain amps and distortions and effects, and then wonder why it sounds dreadful and blame the MFX unit.   

 

For gigging, I don't use an amp - I put my MFX straight through the FOH PA.  If I need a monitor, or for rehearsals or smaller gigs, I have a powered speaker cab - a Headrush FRFR108. FRFR = full range, flat response - so I'm hearing as close to how the amp/cab model are intended to sound with virtually no colouring from the Headrush amp or speaker.  There's no right or wrong here, it's whatever works for you.  

 

 

[rarellano]

2 hours ago, voxman55 said:

Do you mean the 20w Joyo Bantamp Meteor?  Personally, I don't put multi Fx pedals through amps because generally I don't like the tone, even through the FX loop return. Although you're using it as a pure power-amp, so you don't get all the preamp colouring, it still colours your tone.  Some amps are better than others obviously, and ditto cabs you go through. 

 

So, here's a common fallacy - 'I've got a real cab so I need to turn the cab model off' - right? Well, no - it's all down to personal taste and there are no absolute rights & wrongs. .  When you are hearing your Pod Go through headphones, with a good set you should be getting close to a flat response so that when you have the cab models turned on, you are hearing much closer to how eg a mic'd Marshall Plexi through a 4x12 Greenback cab will sound.  Plus you can fine tune the cab to taste with mic type, distance, frequency adjustments, and even boosting the dB output.  But when you go through a real cab, it will sound very different because it's completely different to the cab model you've been using ie there is no Randall 4x12 cab in Pod Go! 

 

But especially if you want to turn cab models off and hear your real cab tone at its best, the single most important tonal tool you have in  your Pod Go to get the best out of an external cab is...(drum roll...) an EQ.  It's already a fixed block in Pod Go, so use it to your advantage, to shape your tone. If it's too bassy, raise the higher and mid frequencies and lower the bottom end.  Learning to use EQ, choosing the best type for your needs, setting it, and experimenting with its position in the signal chain, output levels etc, is ABSOLUTELY KEY.  EQ type is less important eg  although a graphic v parametric EQ work a little differently they both do pretty much the same thing albeit in slightly different ways.  Really investing some time to learn about EQ  and tone shaping will be, I promise you, the number one best time investment you can make.  Whilst not exactly the same thing, a cab model or IR is essentially just a type of EQ.  

 

So, my first recommendation - with cab models off, use an EQ to help shape your tone from your real cab.  Second recommendation -  try putting the cab models back on, raise the dB output to eg 2-3dB for a 'bigger' feel, add on say 15-25% early relic, start with a 57 dynamic mic and experiment with distance, and mic type.  And you'll get a way nearer tone to your headphones than turning your cab off.  And still use your EQ to shape your tone.  As I said, I don't generally put my MFX through an amp, but when I do, I tend to leave the cab model on.  

 

This is why Pod Go is not plug and play. Pod Go is a tool - and a very sophisticated & powerful one.  But it is incredibly versatile - you just have to invest time to learn what it can really do.  Too many users expect instant gratification, dial in high gain amps and distortions and effects, and then wonder why it sounds dreadful and blame the MFX unit.   

 

For gigging, I don't use an amp - I put my MFX straight through the FOH PA.  If I need a monitor, or for rehearsals or smaller gigs, I have a powered speaker cab - a Headrush FRFR108. FRFR = full range, flat response - so I'm hearing as close to how the amp/cab model are intended to sound with virtually no colouring from the Headrush amp or speaker.  There's no right or wrong here, it's whatever works for you.  

 

 

 

 

@voxman55 WHAT A CLASS/EXPLANATION! THANKS!

My cons: I use AMP OUT to play Rocksmith and FX LOOP RETURN as AUX to enter PC sound, all mentioned connections of PG. So I have to put Cab simulation at the beginig of the chain. Also plays on a Marshall AVT100X, connecting MAIN OUT L to amp Return. My axe: a cheaper Gibson Les Paul w/minihumbuckers. My Global eq in the attached image.

My questions: where do you recommend me put the eq? I use on PG -> Cab (off), Dynamics and Distortions before amp, then FX LOOP (off), then Time fx, Mods, fx, Reverb... What eq? What values?

THANKS A LOOOT!

 

 

[Pimmert]

Just now, voxman55 said:

Do you mean the 20w Joyo Bantamp Meteor?  Personally, I don't put multi Fx pedals through amps because generally I don't like the tone, even through the FX loop return. Although you're using it as a pure power-amp, so you don't get all the preamp colouring, it still colours your tone.  Some amps are better than others obviously, and ditto cabs you go through. 

 

So, here's a common fallacy - 'I've got a real cab so I need to turn the cab model off' - right? Well, no - it's all down to personal taste and there are no absolute rights & wrongs. .  When you are hearing your Pod Go through headphones, with a good set you should be getting close to a flat response so that when you have the cab models turned on, you are hearing much closer to how eg a mic'd Marshall Plexi through a 4x12 Greenback cab will sound.  Plus you can fine tune the cab to taste with mic type, distance, frequency adjustments, and even boosting the dB output.  But when you go through a real cab, it will sound very different because it's completely different to the cab model you've been using ie there is no Randall 4x12 cab in Pod Go! 

 

But especially if you want to turn cab models off and hear your real cab tone at its best, the single most important tonal tool you have in  your Pod Go to get the best out of an external cab is...(drum roll...) an EQ.  It's already a fixed block in Pod Go, so use it to your advantage, to shape your tone. If it's too bassy, raise the higher and mid frequencies and lower the bottom end.  Learning to use EQ, choosing the best type for your needs, setting it, and experimenting with its position in the signal chain, output levels etc, is ABSOLUTELY KEY.  EQ type is less important eg  although a graphic v parametric EQ work a little differently they both do pretty much the same thing albeit in slightly different ways.  Really investing some time to learn about EQ  and tone shaping will be, I promise you, the number one best time investment you can make.  Whilst not exactly the same thing, a cab model or IR is essentially just a type of EQ.  

 

So, my first recommendation - with cab models off, use an EQ to help shape your tone from your real cab.  Second recommendation -  try putting the cab models back on, raise the dB output to eg 2-3dB for a 'bigger' feel, add on say 15-25% early relic, start with a 57 dynamic mic and experiment with distance, and mic type.  And you'll get a way nearer tone to your headphones than turning your cab off.  And still use your EQ to shape your tone.  As I said, I don't generally put my MFX through an amp, but when I do, I tend to leave the cab model on.  

 

This is why Pod Go is not plug and play. Pod Go is a tool - and a very sophisticated & powerful one.  But it is incredibly versatile - you just have to invest time to learn what it can really do.  Too many users expect instant gratification, dial in high gain amps and distortions and effects, and then wonder why it sounds dreadful and blame the MFX unit.   

 

For gigging, I don't use an amp - I put my MFX straight through the FOH PA.  If I need a monitor, or for rehearsals or smaller gigs, I have a powered speaker cab - a Headrush FRFR108. FRFR = full range, flat response - so I'm hearing as close to how the amp/cab model are intended to sound with virtually no colouring from the Headrush amp or speaker.  There's no right or wrong here, it's whatever works for you.  

 

 

Hey man thank you so so much. I wasn't expecting such a detailed reply, but it is really appreciated! I will definitely start experimenting with an EQ and leaving the cab on. 

[voxman55]

6 hours ago, rarellano said:

 

 

@voxman55 WHAT A CLASS/EXPLANATION! THANKS!

My cons: I use AMP OUT to play Rocksmith and FX LOOP RETURN as AUX to enter PC sound, all mentioned connections of PG. So I have to put Cab simulation at the beginig of the chain. Also plays on a Marshall AVT100X, connecting MAIN OUT L to amp Return. My axe: a cheaper Gibson Les Paul w/minihumbuckers. My Global eq in the attached image.

My questions: where do you recommend me put the eq? I use on PG -> Cab (off), Dynamics and Distortions before amp, then FX LOOP (off), then Time fx, Mods, fx, Reverb... What eq? What values?

THANKS A LOOOT!

 

 

As I mentioned, the type of EQ is less important but a simple parametric might be good to start with and then try a simple graphic. 're placement, it's experimentation. 

 

The preset settings on Pod Go EQs are set neutral so don't expect them to change your tone straight off. Lots of good YouTube videos on EQ. As I also mentioned, I can't give you a quick fix. We all have different ears, gear and play different types of music..it's a learning curve and you need to spend some real time on this.

 

Btw...I'd avoid the global EQ, which is for something different. It isnt for patch setting, its for balancing global EQ e.g. to adapt for a different cab ( e.g. not yours) or room environment, and where you want to set it back once you are back to normal.

[voxman55]

37 minutes ago, Pimmert said:

Hey man thank you so so much. I wasn't expecting such a detailed reply, but it is really appreciated! I will definitely start experimenting with an EQ and leaving the cab on. 

Pleasure. See also my comment 're global EQ in above reply.  In your circumstances, if you found the right patch settings for your set up, if you went to a gig and plugged into a different cab, global EQ could help change your overall EQ quickly. 

 

 

[rarellano]

On 3/31/2021 at 4:47 AM, voxman55 said:

Pleasure. See also my comment 're global EQ in above reply.  In your circumstances, if you found the right patch settings for your set up, if you went to a gig and plugged into a different cab, global EQ could help change your overall EQ quickly. 

 

 

So, an IR it's just another kind of equalization. I got it. 

[grdGo33]

10 hours ago, rarellano said:

So, an IR it's just another kind of equalization. I got it. 

Not exactly...  IR = Impulse Response, and indeed, it does 'capture' FR (Frequency Response), but it does a LOT more more...   It will also capture 'everything' around it.  Ex:   If you had an amp and played the sound "tikilliki" through it, and it sounded like "tekesseke" because it it has a bad woofer; well, if you generated an IR, the IR would make it sound like if it was played through the amp.  Basically; it captures "the system"; it captures how a cab + a mic makes the sounds sound when you're playing 'through' them.

 

The simplest way to visualize the concept, imagine a recording studio, where they have a Marshall Cab setup with a microphone at 2 inches at 3 degrees; well, if you plugged an amp on the cab and recorded the sound recorded by the microphone, it would record the way the cab + mic sound.  Well, that's exactly the IR.  In theory, if you played the sound through the cab + mic and recorded the mic output, you would get the exact same sound by recording the amp signal and running it through the IR.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_response

[grdGo33]

On 3/30/2021 at 7:11 PM, voxman55 said:

So, here's a common fallacy - 'I've got a real cab so I need to turn the cab model off' - right? Well, no - it's all down to personal taste and there are no absolute rights & wrongs.

 

Well essentially, let's say you have a Go patch:  (guitar) -> OD -> amp -> cab -> mic -> delay -> reverb -> studio monitors -> room (final sound you hear), that is what 'qualifies' as a 'normal' chain.

 

If you go:  (guitar) -> OD -> amp -> cab -> mic -> delay -> reverb -> 2nd cab -> room    or    (guitar) -> OD -> amp -> cab -> mic -> delay -> reverb -> 2nd cab -> 2nd mic -> speakers -> room    well that would not qualify as a 'normal' chain...   Sure, "it's all down to personal taste", but nobody in the real world would run that kind of setup.  So if you want to get closer to what you would be getting in real life were you not using emulation, you should bypass the Go's cab and microphone, because you already have a cab which will add its own cab sound, and don't need a microphone because your real cab is already outputting the sound in your room.

 

Like nobody in the world world would run a Marshall Amp through Marshall 4x12, record it with a microphone, and then take that sound, and run it through a 2nd guitar 4x12 cab, and use this 2nd guitar cab sound for the room/recording...  Well at least I've never heard of it being done by anybody!  LOL

 

The other thing is that the Microphone of the cab sim of the Go, does a LOT of things to the 'sound'... It doesn't just mess with the FR, it really does alter the 'fundamentals'...  And I mean, that change pre-cab, is just not natural for a cab...

 

Ex:  Say you have a Marshall amp + cab in your room, and your amp blew up, and you replace your amp with a Go.  You'd run the Go's Marshall Amp sim without PGO cab+mic.  And that is what would sound closest.  The Go's amp+mic would just add distortion (differences vs normal amp).  Sure, maybe you would prefer this sound; but the typical way of doing it would just be no Go cab+mic.  Otherwise, you're getting emulated Microphone distortion, emulated cab distortion plus your own real cab distortion on top of it...

 

The fallacy here, if there is one here, is going from headphone to your guitar amp and expecting it to sound anywhere near the same.  If that was your goal; then you could try to find the closest sounding cab in the Go to your real cab, find the most transparent PGO mic, then use that for headphones, and disable mic+cab of Go when using your own cab.  It' will never be the same, but that could be what gets you closest from one to the other.  Realistically; if you want to use your cab, you'll need to tweak your patches for your cab, and likely have a completely different set of patches for the headphones; as you'll never be able to 'match' of make 1 patch sound 'perfect' on both your guitar cab and headphones.

 

 

[voxman55]

Whilst I think @grdGo33 has made a good post here, one of the key advantages of Pod Go is that you are not restricted by 'real life' and you have way more options.  All that matters is that you create a tone you like. Whether you prefer the natural sound of your cab and want to turn off amp/cab models, or keep them on, there are no rights and wrongs here..it's just what sounds good and works for you. All I'm saying is you should learn about EQ, not be afraid to experiment, and not be a slave to 'conventional thinking'. 

[grdGo33]

@voxman55 yeah :)

 

Also, if you want to get 'close' to headphone sound; maybe consider a FRFR speaker (lots of threads here) or Studio Monitors.  Then your headphone sound would be closer to what you would hear from either.  But again, the FRFR, headphones and studio monitors will also impart their own sound, so depending on how different they sound from one another, you'll again not get perfection.  Same for getting your your patches sounding good via Studio Monitors, then outputting through a PA at a gig or whatever...  EQ will help a lot like vox mentioned.

 

I'm pretty sure the FRFR/studio monitors are 'better' vs a guitar cab to use with the Go..  As per this thread; using a Guitar Cab is kinda redundant and skews the emulated recorded with a cab + mic of the Go!  (Not that you can't get great results with a cab; but then you have to keep in mind that either you're stacking cabs and/or really using your own cab instead of the Go's vast cab/IR emulation; which does give you more options than your 1 real guitar amp.)