Jump to content
StewPierce

Equalizer

Recommended Posts

Hello Line 6ers.

My experience goes back to 1999 when I purchased an AX2 w/ Floorboard.  I judge guitar tone mostly with clean sounds created by single coil or low output humbuckers. I'll leave the heavy distortion discussion for another post. Over the years (don't ask), I have had the honor and privilege to play through some of the world's best amplifiers (1961 Vox AC-30, 1961 Ampeg Jet, Mid 60's Bassman (in brown!), 70s era 100w Marshall half stack, Peavey Classic 50w 410 combo, 1965 Fender Twin Reverb (God, that thing is loud!!!) and a Crate Blue Voodoo 120w half stack (had to have those lights on stage LOL!). Having held most of the band rehearsals at my house there were always amps left around that I was able to try out when their owners weren't around. I've done a good shake out on the Vetta, Peavey 5150, and a host of other Fender models that I didn't actually own. also, tried out a Mesa Lonestar - stands out as a good one as I recall.  I consider myself to be an authority on guitar tone (no one gave me that title...I'm just claiming it).  I stand before you all to say that I was able to drag some incredibly convincing guitar tones out of the AX2.  I gigged constantly with the amp until 2015. Rock, country and blues, it did it all.  It crapped out once and I fixed it with the help of an old retired electronics dude (broken solder joint at one of the main output capacitors - probably from transport).  In the veins of the AX2 I have a go-to preset that was constructed side by side with a flagship Fender Blues Deluxe amplifier. Whether I send that sound to FOH or play it out of the 2 Eminence (yeah, the AX2 has them) 12" speakers the tone is nothing short of wonderful (including perfect harmonic overtones).

Okay, now my point....I'm getting old, the AX2 is getting old. So, I goes out and buys me one of these POD Go things.  It's not bad.  Didn't want to lay out for the Helix and everyone says the Pod Go has the same basic sounds.  The presets pretty much suck (Line 6 needs to start listening to the users - their presets always suck).  I brought out the old A/B switch and began to recreate "my" sound with the Pod Go sitting next to the old AX2 (Yeah, it still works.....mostly). After hours of coming very close to the magic tone, I ultimately had to be satisfied with "almost got it".  What stopped me from success, you ask?  Did you ask?  I'll tell you anyway.  It was the lack of a 31 band EQ as an option.  There is a frequency somewhere in the 3K range that just puts the icing on the cake. I know the AX2 doesn't have a 31 band EQ either.  It didn't need one.  It honed in on that Fender Blues Deluxe like "get out of my way b_tch!" .

After all that crap I just spewed I just want to say "LIne 6.....please give me a 31 band EQ upgrade to my Pod Go so I can keep the magic tone alive ...and.....hire somebody new to program your presets....maybe me."

Thank you       ps, go back to offering 2 expression pedals.....wah and volume.....both important!new meets old

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, OmegaSlayer said:

With a 31 band EQ we could sculpt every possible sound...

If only...

 

I can't count more than 10 as I then run out of fingers!  :rotflmao

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, voxman55 said:

 

I can't count more than 10 as I then run out of fingers!  :rotflmao

What's up with your feet dude? :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, OmegaSlayer said:

What's up with your feet dude? :lol:

Can't see these when I'm playing - and taking my socks off at a gig would evacuate the place ....even faster than my playing! - :bumpbump

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, OmegaSlayer said:

IRs change everything from night to day

This can be true but not as often as you might think. The stock cabs are actually very good.  Aside from varying mic type, distance, and frequency range, the real 'trick' is dB level. IRs that often seem to sound better than stock cabs do so partly because their dB levels are higher. In Pod Go the cabs are all set at 0dB. Raise to +6dB and hear the difference. 

 

With the stock cab set properly you'll be pleasantly surprised at how much nearer these can get to many of the equivalent IRs. 

 

IRs can also be a bit of a rabbit hole and buying IRs can be a bit of a lottery as to whether you'll personally like them as we all have different preferences.  

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, voxman55 said:

This can be true but not as often as you might think. The stock cabs are actually very good.  Aside from varying mic type, distance, and frequency range, the real 'trick' is dB level. IRs that often seem to sound better than stock cabs do so partly because their dB levels are higher. In Pod Go the cabs are all set at 0dB. Raise to +6dB and hear the difference. 

 

With the stock cab set properly you'll be pleasantly surprised at how much nearer these can get to many of the equivalent IRs. 

 

IRs can also be a bit of a rabbit hole and buying IRs can be a bit of a lottery as to whether you'll personally like them as we all have different preferences.  

Cab settings are a really obscure thing for the "novice" (like the "deep settings" of the amp section)

I must totally agree with you after having spent 2 months fiddling a couple of hours daily with the PodGo

The device has incredible untapped potential and there's loads to learn and loads of ways you can spare CPU power to obtain the stuff you need from the effects you already have active

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my take on IRs.  To me, they seem to be nothing more than pre-set equalizer adjustments.  Why in the world do I want to take the time to sample (thousands?) of eq settings when all I need is my good ear and the tool (31 band eq) to zero right in on the tone I can hear in my head or copy another amp that I may like the sound of.  Line 6' ads claim to give us the tools to find our own sound.  And yet, they stop short of giving us what we really need.  The global equalizer is a joke.  The 10 band MXR (also the only graphic eq offered in the Helix) is quite limiting.  The break points on the EQ are for bass and guitar so some of the bands are useless to a guitar player (62 hz...really?, 16kz.... for what?).  I would much rather be able to sculpt out tone in the mid bands.

On a side note, I just happened to read an article about the equipment and settings that Kurt Cobain used on Teen Spirit. Not a song I would choose to exemplify great guitar tone but familiar to most of us. I found it interesting that the Mesa pre amp he used had EQ break points that were exactly the same as the AX2. (80, 240, 750, 2200, 6600).  Did everybody know something back then that has since been forgotten? IDK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, StewPierce said:

Here's my take on IRs.  To me, they seem to be nothing more than pre-set equalizer adjustments.  Why in the world do I want to take the time to sample (thousands?) of eq settings when all I need is my good ear and the tool (31 band eq) to zero right in on the tone I can hear in my head or copy another amp that I may like the sound of.  Line 6' ads claim to give us the tools to find our own sound.  And yet, they stop short of giving us what we really need.  The global equalizer is a joke.  The 10 band MXR (also the only graphic eq offered in the Helix) is quite limiting.  The break points on the EQ are for bass and guitar so some of the bands are useless to a guitar player (62 hz...really?, 16kz.... for what?).  I would much rather be able to sculpt out tone in the mid bands.

On a side note, I just happened to read an article about the equipment and settings that Kurt Cobain used on Teen Spirit. Not a song I would choose to exemplify great guitar tone but familiar to most of us. I found it interesting that the Mesa pre amp he used had EQ break points that were exactly the same as the AX2. (80, 240, 750, 2200, 6600).  Did everybody know something back then that has since been forgotten? IDK

IRs aren't compulsory so if you don't want to use any that's fine.

 

The Global EQ is NOT there to find your tone on individual patches. It's simply intended as a useful tool to globally adjust all your patches temporarily to compensate for different acoustic qualities in different venues.

 

Most users would not want a 31 band EQ and most would probably be on a learning curve even with a 7 or 10 band EQ so you are very much an exception in having that skill set, hence why Pod Go has no 31 band EQ. It would also likely exceed the fixed block allowance that Line 6 set for the EQ block, and it would likely need allocating to one of the 4 user blocks.

 

With regards to a 31 band EQ being able to exactly replicate any IR, I suspect you may be able to get very close. But there are some limitations as an IR captures a very wide range of sonic differentials with different combinations of speaker type, speaker cab build, distance and placing of one or multi microphones from cone, room acoustics, etc. Even a 31 band EQ can't dial in all if that.

 

But I agree IRs are a rabbit hole. The trick is to find perhaps just a few that you really like that fit what you need. Perhaps a nice 4x12 greenback for a Marshall, a 2x12 Alnico for a Vox AC30 etc. Whether free versions are good enough or whether paid for versions are significantly better is just down to personal taste. 

 

It also depends on where you are using the IRs and/or EQ settings. In a studio, some folk may be very sensitive to EQ and IR mixes. But in a live band mix a lot of those nuances will simply vanish.

 

There's no right or wrong here. If you are happy with stock cabs and can use an EQ to dial in/ out certain frequencies, that's fine. If you use an external 31 band EQ, that's fine too, as is finding and using IRs that suit you.  

 

Btw, I'm not sure your statement that the MXR 10 band being the only graphic EQ is wholly right - isn't the Cali Q graphic EQ also graphic?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Voxman55 you're probably correct that most guitar players don't want a 31 band eq.  After playing out around other musicians for so many years I can tell you that most guitar players don't get it.  They stomp on there favorite fuzz box and claim "see how good it sounds!". I'm speaking to people like myself. Ones that have been around and have vast experience over the years with fine instruments and all the gizmos that go with them. What some people lack is a reference point.  You won't know what "good" sounds like until you've been exposed to it.  Sound is quite subjective so there will always be myriad opinions.  I'll stand behind a good Fender Strat or Tele for the best clean tones on the planet.  Starting there and getting it to break up and sound sweet takes the correct blend of frequencies to achieve pleasant sounding harmonics.  Start out with the wrong frequencies and the break up will sound like garbage (many refer to modelers' distortion as sounding "fizzy"). I'll conclude with this...I connected the main outs of the Pod Go to a stereo 31 band eq and then on to the FOH mixer and guess what?...got my sound back in about 30 minutes. I'd trade in the Pod Go for a full-on Helix right now if I knew it had better tone shaping capabilities.....it doesn't. I'd prefer to not have to tote around extra equipment (which is why I chose a modeling amp in the first place).  I wonder if anyone at Line 6 can appreciate that their first attempt at this modeling thing was probably their best - just like a "first take" in the studio is probably going to be the best performance.  BTW Voxman55, I appreciate your attention to this subject however, If you've got time to adjust your global eq at every gig you're probably not playing many gigs. In addition, I am suggesting a 31 band eq be made available in addition to the Sesame Street 10 Band eq (complete with Big Bird steering wheel) so there will be no need for an additional effects block (choose one or the other depending on your sonic aptitude).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, StewPierce said:

Voxman55 you're probably correct that most guitar players don't want a 31 band eq.  After playing out around other musicians for so many years I can tell you that most guitar players don't get it.  They stomp on there favorite fuzz box and claim "see how good it sounds!". I'm speaking to people like myself. Ones that have been around and have vast experience over the years with fine instruments and all the gizmos that go with them. What some people lack is a reference point.  You won't know what "good" sounds like until you've been exposed to it.  Sound is quite subjective so there will always be myriad opinions.  I'll stand behind a good Fender Strat or Tele for the best clean tones on the planet.  Starting there and getting it to break up and sound sweet takes the correct blend of frequencies to achieve pleasant sounding harmonics.  Start out with the wrong frequencies and the break up will sound like garbage (many refer to modelers' distortion as sounding "fizzy"). I'll conclude with this...I connected the main outs of the Pod Go to a stereo 31 band eq and then on to the FOH mixer and guess what?...got my sound back in about 30 minutes. I'd trade in the Pod Go for a full-on Helix right now if I knew it had better tone shaping capabilities.....it doesn't. I'd prefer to not have to tote around extra equipment (which is why I chose a modeling amp in the first place).  I wonder if anyone at Line 6 can appreciate that their first attempt at this modeling thing was probably their best - just like a "first take" in the studio is probably going to be the best performance.  BTW Voxman55, I appreciate your attention to this subject however, If you've got time to adjust your global eq at every gig you're probably not playing many gigs. In addition, I am suggesting a 31 band eq be made available in addition to the Sesame Street 10 Band eq (complete with Big Bird steering wheel) so there will be no need for an additional effects block (choose one or the other depending on your sonic aptitude).

 

It's always possible Line 6 might add a 31 band EQ to Helix, but it's highly unlikely that this would be added to Pod Go. And the reason is very simple..Pod Go is intended for simpler less techy users who want something easier to use.

 

Line 6 has said they won't even consider adding 1 or 2 more user blocks or showing DSP useage for each amp/ fx in Pod Go. With the former it wanted Pod Go to deliver 4 blocks 'most of the time' so users wouldn't be disappointed and complain at seeing too many grey outs.  It won't show DSP percentages as it says users would be distracted and worry about DSP rather than focussing on the sounds they want. 

 

So, by the same logic, the average Pod Go user doesn't understand EQ and therefore a 31 band EQ option just for a handful of folk that might use it, is not reflective of the typical Pod Go customer base.

 

Essentially, Line 6 has the view that if you want more sophistication you have to buy a Helix product, and Pod Go probably isn't for you.

 

I'm not saying this is my view, merely how Line 6 has positioned Pod Go for its core Pod Go target customers. 

 

However, consider too that Line 6 has a vested interest in maintaining a significant differential as between Pod Go and Helix. If it improved Pod Go too much, customers might be more inclined to buy Pod Go rather than e.g. Helix LT.  But to be fair, they are different animals...Pod Go is a Pod, NOT a Helix product. 

 

Regarding global EQ, it's just a tool for those that might need it.  I think it will save one batch of global EQ setting that you can engage as needed but I haven't used the feature yet - I've only had Pod Go since lockdown so have no experience with it yet for band practice or live gigging . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...