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Pickups Nullified by Helix?


ju5tntime
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Hey guys, I noticed something quite odd today that I hadn't noticed before. It seemed that no matter what I did with my pickup selector on my guitar the tone remained the same on my patch. Is that just kind of the way the cookie crumbles with this stuff, or am I doing something wrong?

 

I can't imagine that the modeling technology could be warping the sound of my guitar that much that my pickups are rendered next to generic. If it makes a difference most of my guitars have Humbuckers and coil splitting. 

 

In fact the oddest thing is that while the pickup selector does change things, it's like the opposite of what it should do. When I go to the neck it's more bold/trebly, and with the bridge selected it's thicker and bassy. I know it's not the guitar. It doesn't do that on my Triple Rectifier. 

 

Is this normal? If so, I can't say I like it. The Helix has given me a lot of convenience in recording, but it's really a shame to have your guitars feel like they lose their character and become sort of sterile if that makes sense. I hope that gets worked out some day soon. 

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I’d say no, it’s not normal. Really can’t imagine why that would be the case unless you’re using a ludicrous amount of gain. But even then, you should be hearing differences from different pickups.

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50 minutes ago, phil_m said:

I’d say no, it’s not normal. Really can’t imagine why that would be the case unless you’re using a ludicrous amount of gain. But even then, you should be hearing differences from different pickups.

So I actually tested another guitar, and that one worked normally. How strange though. Like I said the other guitar sounds normal on an amp, but the results through helix were strange indeed..

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3 minutes ago, MusicLaw said:

You might want to check your guitar's pickups, pots and switch wiring. 

That’s a reasonable suggestion, but why would it uniquely happen on the Helix, and not my Triple Rectifier?

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You said that your guitar amp is responding noticeably different to your pickups than the Helix. Is this happening on every preset? You also mentioned it does not happen with another guitar.  It might be worth checking if the first block (or first active block depending on your global setting) in your preset(s) is setting an impedance that is not working well with that guitar's pickups. You could also try changing the input impedance manually to see if there is one that appears to work better. If not, that is probably not the issue.

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Given your description it sounds like it's definitely something in your preset and impedance would be a likely candidate.  However, I'd also be curious how you're monitoring your Helix.  I guess I'd start with a super simple preset consisting only of an amp+cab block and see what happens.  Clearly not a normal behavior.

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Another vote here for you to check the impedance setting on the preset. If it is set to Auto and you have effect blocks in the path it can lead to unpredictable results.... sometimes less than desirable. For the sake of troubleshooting... set the impedance to 1M and see what happens. 

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9 hours ago, ju5tntime said:

So I actually tested another guitar, and that one worked normally. How strange though. Like I said the other guitar sounds normal on an amp, but the results through helix were strange indeed..

 

Well that rules out the Helix as the cause then...the selector switch on that guitar is not functioning properly. It ain't switching anything...

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....Pretty sure something wrong happening on your guitar, or the way you are hearing/evaluating these tones.

 

Technically speaking, what you describe it's not really possible. Even with impedance mismatching, it's not possible to have the same tone coming from different pickup position. And when I say "the same", I mean, THE SAME... That's against physics.

 

Anyway, what pickups are we talking about? What kind of wiring?

 

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13 minutes ago, PierM said:

....Pretty sure something wrong happening on your guitar, or the way you are hearing/evaluating these tones.

 

Technically speaking, what you describe it's not really possible. Even with impedance mismatching, it's not possible to have the same tone coming from different pickup position. And when I say "the same", I mean, THE SAME... That's against physics.

 

Anyway, what pickups are we talking about? What kind of wiring?

 

 

Yeah... this has nothing to do with Helix, or impedance settings. He's already ruled it out with another instrument that is working properly. If there's absolutely no discernable difference switching between pickups, then there ain't no switching happening, lol

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10 hours ago, ju5tntime said:

That’s a reasonable suggestion, but why would it uniquely happen on the Helix, and not my Triple Rectifier?


Seems strange indeed. What sort of guitar is it? Does it have active pickups, per chance?

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3 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Yeah... this has nothing to do with Helix, or impedance settings. He's already ruled it out with another instrument that is working properly. If there's absolutely no discernable difference switching between pickups, then there ain't no switching happening, lol

I feel like you guys missed the part where I mentioned plugging the guitar in question into an analog amp, and the pickup switching works absolutely fine, and has the expected audible shift in tone. 
 

The guitar has a Seymour Duncan invader set in the neck and bridge. It’s a Fender Meteora. The guitar I used as a control that sounded right on the Helix was an Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro II, whatever pickups are in that thing.

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2 hours ago, ju5tntime said:

I feel like you guys missed the part where I mentioned plugging the guitar in question into an analog amp, and the pickup switching works absolutely fine, and has the expected audible shift in tone. 
 

The guitar has a Seymour Duncan invader set in the neck and bridge. It’s a Fender Meteora. The guitar I used as a control that sounded right on the Helix was an Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro II, whatever pickups are in that thing.

 

What were the results from testing the guitar using different input impedance values?  I might  try testing the input pad as well with this guitar just for grins.

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On 4/12/2021 at 9:11 PM, ju5tntime said:

It seemed that no matter what I did with my pickup selector on my guitar the tone remained the same on my patch.

 

and in the same post you say this.....

 

On 4/12/2021 at 9:11 PM, ju5tntime said:

In fact the oddest thing is that while the pickup selector does change things, it's like the opposite of what it should do. When I go to the neck it's more bold/trebly, and with the bridge selected it's thicker and bassy.

 

By saying two very different things, you have people responding to two different scenario's. 

Some are responding to you "not hearing ANY difference" and some are responding to the latter statement. 

 

Please clarify your problem so we can all get on the same page. 

 

 

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On 4/12/2021 at 9:11 PM, ju5tntime said:

In fact the oddest thing is that while the pickup selector does change things, it's like the opposite of what it should do. When I go to the neck it's more bold/trebly, and with the bridge selected it's thicker and bassy. I know it's not the guitar. It doesn't do that on my Triple Rectifier. 

 

On 4/13/2021 at 12:14 PM, ju5tntime said:

The guitar has a Seymour Duncan invader set in the neck and bridge.

 

The invader set has a normal(ish) output level for the neck pickup, and a really hot output on the bridge. Your results are extreme but understandable "depending" on your preset. It's sounds like your neck pickup has room to bloom, while the bridge pickup has hit a brick wall. 

 

Does this happen on all presets (including clean ones) or just on moderate to higher gain presets? 

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