Helix "Litigator" with just HX "effects"?

[sjturbo]

Ok, so it appears from feedback I have received that the amp sims in general and in specific the  "Litigator" would not sound good into the front end of my MMRD50. 

So my next question, is it possible to recreate the Litigator model using just the Helix effects? 

[silverhead]

Nothing special about the Litigator model; none of them will sound good. And no, you can’t recreate it using just the FX.

 

Also, you don’t need to start a new thread for this. As long as it remains the same topic it’s better to just add a post to your previous thread.

[sjturbo]

Ok Thanks. So not to be a pain, has anyone created the Litigator sound using the effects in the HX Stomp?

[MusicLaw]

Not going to work!

 

The Litigator sound is a result of Line 6's Ben Adrian who designed the entire Litigator amp model. If you want those characteristics you'll need to use the Litigator Amp or Preamp Block in Helix Native in your DAW or VST Host, or get an HX Stomp, Stomp XL, LT, Floor or Rack which have the Litigator Amp and Preamp Blocks. Also don't overlook that the resulting Litigator sound is also a result of the speaker cab and mic selections which the Litigator Combo Amp Block uses. 

[sjturbo]

Thanks very much again! Uncle! I surrender! I may have one other option. I have an old Carvin VT50 head with Send/Return effects loop. Will that work? If so, can someone direct me to how to cable it?

[silverhead]

Yes. That will work. You want to use what’s called the 4-cable method. 
 

This will allow you to use either  a Helix amp model or your physical amp’s preamp section. You can set up your preset to use one or the other and avoid using both simultaneously.

 

Search the internet for 4CM to get much more information on how and why to use 4CM. Once you understand it and gain some experience with it you will find it very flexible and powerful.

[silverhead]

One other consideration. You seem prepared to abandon your current physical amp, and to drag another out of storage just so you can bypass its preamp section and use Helix amp models. That begs the question: Do you actually want to use the preamp section of any physical amplifier or do you just want to use it as a cab/speaker for the Helix device? If you just want something to connect Helix to so that you can hear the output you will get best results if you don’t use a regular guitar amp at all. Buy an FRFR (PA) speaker instead!

[sjturbo]

I'm not sure there was a disconnect but anything is possible.  My main want was to be able to run the "Litigator" amp simulation into the  front  the MM and still have a good Litigator sound out of the amp. "Not going to work", got that. My other question was if it was possible to get Litigator sound using just the effects, ie the pedal simulations  in the Helix, (no amp simulation used). Again not possible, it appears. Got all that now. And If I cannot get the Litigator sound by putting the Helix in the effects loop it may be best to get an "FRFR (PA) speaker instead".  The disconnect may have been in my attempt to explain better what my goal was. Thanks for your inputs. 

[bobcoss]

sjturbo,

 

Some confusion might be that there is a line 6 product called the "HX Effects".  It contains all of the effects from the helix and stomp but no amp, preamp, or cabinet simulations. 

 

The "Litigator" sound is very dependent on the amp model in the Helix.  It sounds really great, and I commend you for aspiring to use it.   That being said, the sound you are going to hear is all dependent on what you put after that amp block either in the Helix or out side of it.   So if you put your helix in the guitar in of the MM or Carvin VT50, the sound is going to be changed by the preamp,  amp stage, and speaker/cabinet of those amps.     So you are already dealing with a moving target.

 

There is no "effect" for the litigator sound.  It is a custom designed amp not modeled on any real world amp, so some might argue that the litigator sounds is many things....

 

If you purchase one of the Helix or HX Stomp models, you will have the Litigator amp model, and that can be fed into a variety of speakers and amplifiers.  For your situation, you can use the litigator preamp or full amp model into the effects return of the Carvin VT50 to drive some kind of speaker cabinet.  That could sound fantastic if the power amp of the VT50 sounds good and you have speaker you like.   It might not sounds anything like what I would get running the Litigator model with the recommended cabinet into my PowerCab 112+.   And that sounds great to me on my Helix/PowerCab combo.

 

Now for your question about effects.    There are some drive pedals that might get you close to a litigator sound and feel if you go into the MM amp.  You can even use the litigator preamp and amp model as a drive pedal into the MM and who knows, it might sound great.  

 

Hope this helps you.....

[sjturbo]

Thanks for the help. Hard to tell what I'll do at this point. I actually have overdrives that I get me somewhat there. I was looking for something that would be the final building blocks.

Not sure I feel like investing in a crap shoot that may or may not get me there. I appreciate you input.

[datacommando]

On 4/20/2021 at 5:58 PM, sjturbo said:

So my next question, is it possible to recreate the Litigator model using just the Helix effects? 

FYI: As it has already been pointed out - the Litigator is not a real amp in the conventional sense - it’s a digital model.

 

In this linked thread someone has posted the real story of the Litigator from the guy who created it - Ben Adrian of Line 6.

 

Not sure if it helps, but - here ya go. 

 

 

[bobcoss]

These devices aren't a crap shoot.  They sound really good in the end.  It does take a bit of effort some times, but well worth it.   Find a used HX Stomp and experiment with it.  You should be able to sell it for what you have in it if you don't like it.    By itself, its a great amp and effects modeling pedal, and you can use it for all kinds of things with what you already have.

 

 

[sjturbo]

I know that Line 6 devices are not a crap shoot. What I meant was that running directly into the front of my amp with the Litigator amp model is a crap shoot  and even at a used price I would likely loose.