Jump to content
P_J_Doyle

Help Required To Create A Particular Guitar Tone

Recommended Posts

Hi there,

I am a really complete and utter beginner on the HD500 and would be really grateful for any assistance you can offer me in two respects. Firstly, I hope I have posted this in the right sort of place, please advise if I am in the wrong forum and there is a more appropriate place to post.

 

Secondly, Im a too long in the tooth guitarist who, back in the late 80's, was travelling around Australia on a Greyhound bus and wore out a cassette tape (yes a tape, most folks will probably think Im from the Planet Spud or something) from an Aussie band called Noiseworks. Could one of the POD experts out there have a listen to the guitar sound on the track called Touch - available on YouTube here:

 

 

and altruistically see if they could come up with a patch that mimics what sound the guitarist gets out of his rig? I have no idea just how much effort this would take, or what needs to be done to accomplish this but would love to lay my hands on something similar that both gives me the sound and which I could then use to dissect how the sound is created. Based on such a solid foundation I hope I would then be able to learn how to develop an understanding of the capabilities of what the HD500 can do and use it as a solid foundation to create patches of my own.

 

Can anyone offer any assistance?

 

Many thanks and regards to anyone who takes the time to read/respond..

 

Kindest regards

 

Peter

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

400 user here, so I don't have any experience with the 500, but just a few comments as you start down the rabbit hole...

 

You have to first realize that what you hear in a recording has been processed a couple of times past the point where the guitar track was laid down, and only that last thing (i.e., the first step) is what you can accomplish with your HD.  How close that gets to what you hear in a recording is a reasonable goal, but it's only a beginning.

 

With all that, and the fact that there's a couple people around here who can excel at picking something accurate for you, I'd say you should just dive in and give it a whirl yourself.  That's how you'll learn what the different amps and effects do, and figure out which ones are easiest for you to control.  NB: It also depends on your specific guitar and monitoring setup whether a patch recommended by someone else will actually sound anything at all like what you are hoping for!

 

The video shows a glimpse of a Fender Tele Deluxe (dual HB model). I actually had a walnut one like that back in the 70s, and to my ear, that recording doesn't sound a lot like that guitar, but a bit more LP-ish.  Of course, again, post-processing, and who knows exactly what effects were used originally, or if the guitar in the vid is the one used to record!  But, I'd start with a HB guitar, and then on the POD either something basic like a Fender Deluxe, or maybe an AC-30.  Then, play around with tone and then pick an overdrive and delay effect (tube screamer and digital delay w/mod are a couple I grab for a first run these days, light on the mod).  I don't have the ear for precise matching, or maybe it's the patience I lack, but I was able to get a reasonable sound with both, even a Bassman works, but you have to play around with a lot of knobs to get the EQ close.  And, again, they probably changed some things in the mix; e.g., the EQ on that electric guitar track is probably not what was recorded.  Even the delay could have been added afterwards, though less likely, perhaps, back then.

 

Good luck.  Let us know how it goes.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is not meant to be discouraging, only to prevent you from wasting a lot of time. The ugly truth is that 1000 of us could dial in a patch that mimics the tone as closely as we can get it, and you could download them all...and you are likely to have 1000 fresh, but useless tones on your hands. There are simply too many variables involved, from the guitar and amp used to do the tweaking, to each person's playing style. No matter what you download, its not gonna sound anything like it did to the guy who dialed it in. If you need proof, download anything you want from custom tones, and if it sounds anything remotely like what its supposed to, I'll buy you a case of whatever your favorite poison might be....it might sound like Eric Johnson to the guy who spent 3 hours painstakingly turning knobs and pushing buttons, but in your hands it could just as easily sound like Johnny Ramone. Such is the nature of modeling amps...nothing will replace the trial and error phase. There are no instant drag-and-drop solutions here. If you need a jumping off point, try picking a factory preset that is at least in the same vague ballpark as what you're looking for, and start making changes from there...I swear this is the only thing that works. Once you get a feel for a few different amp and fx combinations, getting tones you like will come quicker and easier...I've tried the other approach, and it's like pi$$ing into the wind...since you'll hafta start from scratch anyway, why do it with wet shoes?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

P.S. Just started running through the presets and there's one called Seven Bells on my 400 that's an AC30 model, "Screamer" and Analog Delay - might get you in the ballpark.  The 500 might have the same, though I don't know if it sounds the same!

 

While a great many of the presets on your POD are just "technology statements" there's a lot you can learn from just finding one that's not too far out there, and deconstructing it.  Listen to what happens when you click the effect in/out, change an effect to a different type, or change the parameters of effects or amps;  Then, eventually, when you hear something recorded, you'll have a better idea where to start.

 

Learn to use the edit software, and before you tinker too much, back up the preset so you can restore it individually, without needing to do a reset on the HD.  Then, you can play around all you like, save a preset, and come back the next day for a fresh listen, and if you decide you want to start over, just reload the pack via the edit s/w.  You can back up work-in-progress patches while you fine tune.  You'll need to be patient, and let your ears relax after an hour or so of trying to tweak something, so you can keep objectivity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Peter. First off, THANK YOU for posting this. I've not heard of this group before and, yeah, that is quite a great sound he gets. To me, it sounds like he's kind of U2-ish, using an AC30, or something similar, maybe with a Tube Screamer or a better yet Tube Driver in front of it, also probably some dotted eight note delay. Try creating a patch (or maybe download one that is for U2), I'd put the gain/drive all the way up for starters, and add a Tube Driver overdrive in front.

 

If you can find interviews or something with the guitarist telling what he used back then (I see more recent stuff where he's using Knagg's guitars and Ulbrick amps), sometimes that provides some clues.

 

See what you can come up with and post it back...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to see another Aus. member here, I remember Noiseworks and most of my Metal collection is on cassette.

 

A good starting point is to read Meambobbo's guide.

 

http://www.foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/

 

If you know what type of amp the guitarist in question uses it'd be best selecting that amp and going from there.

 

Check out the patch building tips here:

 

http://www.foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/quickGuide

 

s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would just say thank you so much for all the constructive, considered and thought provoking replies. You have clearly gone to considerable time and effort to point me in the right direction and I am really grateful to you all.

 

Apologies for taking a little while to respond as I wanted to ensure I was able to respond in a similarly considered manner and try to do justice to all your guidance.

 

Overall, I think my initial posting amply illustrated my naivety in what I thought was a relatively straightforward request. Clearly, it isn’t, and I have significantly underestimated the degree of complexity involved; a lesson well and truly learned.

 

The overall impression I got was being slightly disheartened by the daunting task “There are simply too many variables involved†as cruisinon2 notably pointed out. However, on the upside, Stephen SLR pointed me in the direction of some collateral that can help me find a starting point and an initial way forward. On a slightly different tack, apologies to him since I’m a Pom! J I used to live in Perth back in the late 80’s, did a lot of travelling around Oz, but am now back the UK. However, I still have many fond memories of a truly great country and people.

 

As previously mentioned, in order to do your responses justice, I feel it only right to make a few comments on each of your replies, and once again, thanks once again for all your thoughts..

 

Still_fiddlin: Fair point well made regarding the “post-production†that takes place that may/will alter the sounds made by the guitarist initially. With that in mind I did a little more digging on YouTube and found a couple of live versions of the track. If you have time, see what you think of live v’s studio tracks from the perspective of the guitar sound. From my untrained ear, the live sound is pretty close to the scrubbed up production sound version of them miming in the first video. Can you spot anything about what it is he’s playing with/through on the live version? I could then perhaps use the amp/guitar as a starting point.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjsD8dJXEKE

 

With respect to my guitars, I’m a leftie and have three electric guitars i.e. a Jap built Fender Strat (Hendrix ’68 re-issue) I bought nearly 30 yrs ago now (time really does fly), a USA built Fender Strat (nearly 20 yrs old), and a Squire Telecaster. I tend to use a WEM Combo 30 watt (Ive had since Jesus played left back for Israel). If you’ve ever seen Pink Floyd Live at Pompeii you’ll know all about WEM. If its good enough for Dave Gilmour then….. QED.

 

You mention that the guitar sounds “LP-ish†– I assume you mean a Gibson Les Paul, if so I agree with you that it does. However, could you explain what you mean by “I'd start with a HB guitar� Do you mean Humbucker pickups? Gibson stable e.g. SG, Explorer, Les Paul type thing? Also, can you spot what he’s playing in the liver videos as I don’t recognise the guitar – but I think I saw him using humbucker pickups which goes back to your thought about why it sounded LP ish.

 

Thanks for the steer regarding “pick an overdrive and delay effect (tube screamer and digital delay w/mod etc…..†sound advice and I’ll certainly give it a go. Additionally, will hunt through the 500 to see if there is anything called Seven Bells, even if there isn’t at least your description gives me a starting point. Many thanks indeed, and for the process you point out about how to go about developing a tone; excellent advice.

 

Cruisinon2: Many thanks for the bet…. Case of Australian Shiraz, or Spanish Rioja please, but I take your point and I think your red wine is well and truly safe J . Your advice, “If you need a jumping off point, try picking a factory preset that is at least in the same vague ballpark as what you're looking for, and start making changes from there†kind of mirrors what other folks have said and I acknowledge and take on board what you say. Based on your experience, do you have any intuitive gut feel for the sort of factory preset I should be looking at?  As for “wet shoesâ€â€¦. LMAO.:-)

 

Brian6String: You’re more than welcome, and thank you. Im sure StephenSLR will be able to tell you more about them than I ever could, but there a fair few cracking tracks of theirs you can listen to on YouTube. I literally wore my tape of theirs travelling around Australia. Listening to them again brings back some great memories. Once again, many thanks indeed for the steer about it being U2-ish (I can hear what you mean about the resemblance now you mention it) and will certainly try out what you suggest.

 

I did a little more research on the guitarist, I believe his name is Stuart Fraser and I discovered a Facebook fan site for Noiseworks (but no joy regarding guitar details) and also the official Noiseworks site at https://www.facebook.com/noiseworksofficial - will try digging around there and maybe be cheeky enough to try to post something to him and enquire about what he used/uses. Will let you know if I get anything from them.

 

I think I might have stumbled onto the same video as you did here i.e. re: your comment on Ulbrick amps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrX__qmRIHU

 

StephenSLR: “G’day mate†from a Pommy ***** J Many thanks for your post and the pointer to the web collateral to help me get going. That’s a comprehensive set of information to digest for sure! That’s pretty much taken care of the rest of my spare time for 2014.

 

Finally, and at the risk of repeating myself, many, many thanks for all the advice and for taking the time to respond. Looking forward to seeing any other replies from the questions I’ve posed above. Will then see if I can actually get something that goes some way towards matching Stuart’s sound.

 

Thanks and regards

 

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL..... :-) Just had a look at your website, impressive stuff! Also, the guy on the right (more than a passing resemblance to Gary Rossington, Lynyrd Skynyrd)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the guy on the right (more than a passing resemblance to Gary Rossington, Lynyrd Skynyrd)?

 

Being possibly the youngest in the band, I'd almost bet he's never heard of them, lol.

 

Thanks for the compliment.

 

s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it just me or does Kings of Leon sound like a Noiseworks clone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice video!

 

Well, those sure looked like Vox amps so we seem to be zeroing in on that component.  As far as production, well, it wasn't recorded in a studio, so it's probably pretty accurate, but there's always the question of channel EQ and overall compression that's been applied to the full mix, even live.  Certainly the audio for the video would have been compressed, but you can probably do just fine without worrying about all that right now, at least!

 

And, yes, HB meant humbucker(s).  (The sound in the first video is a hotter sound than I'd expect from one of those Tele Deluxe models.)  I'd guess that was a PRS in the live vid, and that's more the sound I'd expect from one of those.  Quick googling around show they do make some lefty models, but I didn't see any among their lower (Asia produced) line, so lots of $.  I think a single coil Strat or Tele bridge is going to be a challenge to get that sound, but there's a lot of options in that 500, and maybe that would just require a different amp or overdrive choice and EQ settings.  Take some time and explore, and you'll probably find something there.

 

Good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it just me or does Kings of Leon sound like a Noiseworks clone?

 

Good call. KoL are a bit grittier sounding but I only know a few of their songs.

 

Another thing about the 80's is bands would have their Marshalls, Peaveys, etc. but people are forgetting to get their sound they'd also have an effects rack half a metre tall loaded with racks so it may be a challenge to get the exact sound with only a pedalboard but I guess you can come close.

 

s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a mate who is so 80s metal it rubs off. 

 phaser with  a comp and tube screamer before it will get you the scratchiness your after. or for a flanger instead of the phaser.

 aP75bright with gain around a 3rd will work roll off the bass up the mids and near half on the treble and presence.

Follow with a delay 450ms mostly dry and Octoverb

 

I second Kings of Leon are a Noiseworx clone vocally.

 

EDIT: hurgs tone will do it. Tops

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi again,

Just following up with more thanks to the folks who added to the thread yesterday, some great advice indeed.

 

But, to hurghanico - I'm simply astonished! Just downloaded your mp3 and I am blown away by what you have been able to achieve in such a short period of time. Its brilliant! Not only that but you've nailed the guitar playing as well. You're a talented guitarist indeed. Thank you very much for sharing your results with us.

 

As I mentioned at the outset, I am a complete beginner with the HD500 so dont really know, as yet, how to "chain" all the bits together you mentioned above. Is it too cheeky to ask if you would be willing to publish the HD500 tone (like you did with the mp3 file)? I could then load it into my device and learn from the great sound you've managed to achieve. It would give me such a help start to learning. I appreciate what other folks have said that what works for you may not work for me, but all the same I think it would give me a fantastic starting point.

 

I hope I'm able to pass on my thanks to all the folks who have posted on you sharing your mp3 with us.

 

Also, my sincere thanks to all who have contributed to the thread.

 

Kindest regards

 

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I second Kings of Leon are a Noiseworx clone vocally.

 

My favourite Noiseworks song.

 

 

It really bothers me when I think of all the great Aus. bands that could be household names worldwide if they took the AC/DC and InXs route and hit the USA hard.

 

Every Aussie knows GnR are great Rose Tattoo fans, how many people in the US have even heard of Rose Tattoo?

 

Don't get me started on Cold Chisel, they were offered a US tour but said why should they play US pubs for a few hundred dollars when they're playing arenas in Aus. for hundreds of thousands.

 

I guess that's how it goes.

 

s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Stephen,

Guess we are drifting from my original post, but that's ok by me, if its ok for the other folks. My own 2p on your last posts would be:

 

You have made me feel soooooo old :-)..... your baby of the band being so young he's likely never heard of Lynyrd Skynyrd! You've got to educate him mate :-). Gimme Three Steps, I Aint the One, not even going their mention their closing set iconic number. I was lucky enough to see them several times in the UK back in the 70's most notably Liverpool Empire (my home town) and Knebworth 76 where they blew the Stones off stage! 

 

Regarding USA, I agree with your/their sentiment but I guess it goes for all bands, wherever they originate. The mantra being: you want to make it "big" (I mean globally big) you have to crack the US. Think of the catchment..... USA 250 million+ pairs of ears...... against (in this case Australia) c. 20 million or UK c. 60 million? Just the arithmetic is kind of compelling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have made me feel soooooo old :-)..... your baby of the band being so young he's likely never heard of Lynyrd Skynyrd! You've got to educate him mate

 

Nah, it's not only age, it's growing up in an Aus. city, this ain't Nashville, lol, and I only know them from one song, the one where they all die in the plane crash with Buddy Holly, oops that's Don McLean, lol.

 

Just kidding, I do know Sweet Home Alabama and the band lost 3 members in a plane crash, apart from that not much else.

 

s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi again,

 

StephenSLR: Can I suggest you have a listen to this......... Played a live set of 40 mins (I think it was 1975) on UK TV Old Grey Whistle Test. I think your baby of the band is lying about his age...... Gary Rossington is playing slide on a Gibson SG. You sure its not your band member? :-)

 

 

Enjoy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To hurghanico. What can I say? Thank you so much for your generosity and altruism. I owe you one, although I doubt I'll ever be in a position to adequately return your kind favour.

 

Will try to get this into the HD later today and let you know how I get on.

 

Many, many thanks indeed.

 

Best wishes

 

Peter

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

StephenSLR: Can I suggest you have a listen to this.

 

Ah yes, I actually do know Free Bird but learnt of it recently due to the jokes.

 

s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this an example of the sound I got for this song:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2e5mrwv4v9dmha7/Touch.mp3

 

the chain of the models with their settings I used is:

 

- Les Paul Standard bridge humbucker

- Tube Screamer

- Vox AC-30 miked with 121 ribbon mic

- analog delay, time 20ms, mix at 30%

- analog delay with modulation, time 1/4 notes syncronized, feedback at 25%, mix at 30%

- plate reverb

 

HD500 set in single input approach..

 

all the not mentioned settings are at their default values

 

hope it helps

 

Awesome job on recreating that guitar sound…..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apologies for the lengthy delay, its been a well long time caused by lifes trials. But, with the festive season upon us, its given me time to try to thank hurghanico properly for his generosity and assistance.

 

Best way I could think to thank him is to splice myself into the track using his tone - hope I done both him and Noiseworks justice and that I havent crucified it.

 

Is there a way I can upload the resulting mp3 onto here so you guys can hear my attempt?

 

VBR

 

Peter

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh mate! Many thanks indeed for your kind comments - all I did was drive the car you built! :-).  I really am so very grateful for your help.

 

Have a great Christmas, and a prosperous 2015.

 

PS Sadly I have to report no relation "Holmes"..... Doyle is a common Irish name and I come from the capital of Ireland .... Liverpool! :-) There are tons of us Im afraid.

 

All the very best.

 

VBR

 

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi StephenSLR,

Thanks for your message, I hope the guys on here might be able to help as I have to hold my hand up and say I wouldnt really know where to start. Im so deeply indebted to hurghanico that my life rations of beer have been signed over to him for helping me out. The entire preset creation thing is a bit of a mystery to me. 2015 will be spent trying to get a handle on it!

 

Good luck!

 

VBR

 

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL  :) ..... that's my wife you are talking about  :) Only joking....

 

All Doyle's are a bit mad!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, that sounds pretty awesome.

 

There's one tone that I've been curious about recently; if you've been watching Vikings it's right at the end of the intro

 

@ 0.46

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gmyCRJkKeKs#t=46

 

^ In this version the tone seems to pulsate; I'm almost sure when I watch it on TV it rings out very steadily; they probably fade it out early.

 

s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×