Capacitive touch not working (Rack Controller Footswitch)

[MrNoisy]

just tried a 3rd Ethercon cable - borrowed from internet router - dunno if Cat5 or not but it didnt work either.

assuming the first cable was an original Line 6 supplied one - which i'm 99% sure it is as its 25 feet long and looks the same as pics i've seen) - then it doesnt seem cables are the problem - unless the Line 6 one is faulty due to age, and the other 2 are low quality cat 7's - so i'll probably have to order a new Line 6 ethercon cable to test and if its not that then i'm probably out of options.

 

Can the usb ports on the rack and controller be used to connect them (just to test)?

[HonestOpinion]

2 hours ago, MrNoisy said:

just tried a 3rd Ethercon cable - borrowed from internet router - dunno if Cat5 or not but it didnt work either.

assuming the first cable was an original Line 6 supplied one - which i'm 99% sure it is as its 25 feet long and looks the same as pics i've seen) - then it doesnt seem cables are e the problem - unless the Line 6 one are faulty due to age, and the other 2 are low quality cat 7's - so i'll probably have to oprder a new Line 6 ethercon cable to test and if its not that then i'm probably out of options.

 

Can the usb ports on the rack and controller be used to connect them (just to test)?

 

Clutching at straws here and I know it might be a hassle but have you tried moving the rack and controller to a different room and power outlet and testing? Any chance you live right next to a power plant or directly under a powerline, grin(just kidding)?  I have to agree with Silverhead that barring some seriously bad luck with multiple ethernet cables it might be worth contacting Line6 and seeing if they can help. It sounds like you have been troubleshooting fairly thoroughly and might need to escalate this.

[MrNoisy]

4 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Clutching at straws here and I know it might be a hassle but have you tried moving the rack and controller to a different room and power outlet and testing? Any chance you live right next to a power plant or directly under a powerline, grin(just kidding)?  I have to agree with Silverhead that barring some seriously bad luck with multiple ethernet cables it might be worth contacting Line6 and seeing if they can help. It sounds like you have been troubleshooting fairly thoroughly and might need to escalate this.

i ran an extension chord to another power outlet - no change.

i live about half a mile from a small hydroelectric dam

i live in the western half of japan where the cycle is 60hz - this occasionally causes electrical incompatibility with devices made for the 50Hz eastern side, but most devices run on both frequencies here.

[HonestOpinion]

1 hour ago, MrNoisy said:

i ran an extension chord to another power outlet - no change.

i live about half a mile from a small hydroelectric dam

i live in the western half of japan where the cycle is 60hz - this occasionally causes electrical incompatibility with devices made for the 50Hz eastern side, but most devices run on both frequencies here.

 

Interesting details about Japan's electrical grid. The extension cord was a worthy effort but actually moving the devices to another location might be worth trying just to eliminate any possible unique sort of electrical/static situation. With that said, given that you have tried global resets, and reapplying firmware, swapping cables out, etc.,  I think we are missing something here. Possibly you have a faulty component or some more esoteric issue leaving Line6 as the best resource.  Good luck with this.

[MrNoisy]

Here is a short video of the capacitive touch function - touch is working on the lower row (stomps) but not on the upper row (snaps). (Also doesn't work on presets if one of the preset modes is selected (eg Snap/Preset) in global settings.)

Is this normal or should it be working on all controller buttons? [Sorry for the very low definition video but the forum only allowed me an upload of less than 1mb so i had to reduce quality.]

[MrNoisy]

This might be a clue?:

In Global Settings > Snap/Stomp mode both rows (stomps and snaps) are populated.

But Global Settings > Stomp/Snap mode only the bottom row (snaps) is populated - why is the top row (stomps) unpopulated (empty)? - is this indicative of a software / firmware problem and thus the limited capacitive functionality?

[HonestOpinion]

1 hour ago, MrNoisy said:

This might be a clue?:

In Global Settings > Snap/Stomp mode both rows (stomps and snaps) are populated.

But Global Settings > Stomp/Snap mode only the bottom row (snaps) is populated - why is the top row (stomps) unpopulated (empty)? - is this indicative of a software / firmware problem and thus the limited capacitive functionality?

 

If your screen grabs are showing the same preset in both modes and there are stomps actually assigned to the top row of footswitches then this definitely appears to be a firmware issue. Again, only if there are stomp assignments to footswitches on the top row and they are not showing do you probably have a failed firmware installation. If that is the case I think you need to try another backup, factory reset, and firmware update.  Until you get the firmware acting properly on more obvious issues like this I would not discount it as the possible culprit for the capacitive touch issue.  However, this may very likely be a case where there were simply no stomps assigned to the top row in this particular preset in which case the screen and stomp/snap option is displaying normally.

 

Btw, have you run the UI test on this device yet? Only problem is I am not sure how to get into it on the Rack controller. It is simple on the Helix Floor or LT. If you can find the right footswitch combination on the rack to launch the test(@phil_m?) it allows you to test the capacitance touch at the hardware level using the UI test mode. This might give you a better idea of what is working at the hardware level. Don't know if a bad firmware install can impact this test but if it was designed properly it shouldn't. See the link here for details on how to run it(on the Helix Floor not the rack): 

 

[HonestOpinion]

51 minutes ago, MrNoisy said:

This might be a clue?:

In Global Settings > Snap/Stomp mode both rows (stomps and snaps) are populated.

But Global Settings > Stomp/Snap mode only the bottom row (snaps) is populated - why is the top row (stomps) unpopulated (empty)? - is this indicative of a software / firmware problem and thus the limited capacitive functionality?

 

Edited my post above to include caveat about the preset's assignments which could easily result in this display as per design.  In other words, this is normal behavior for any preset that does not have the top row of switches assigned to stomps.

 

Also found this old post from phil_m that seems to indicate that at least in 2019 there did not seem to be unfortunately, a UI test available for the Rack. Might be worth asking Line6 support if one has been added though.

 

[MrNoisy]

1 hour ago, MrNoisy said:

This might be a clue?:

In Global Settings > Snap/Stomp mode both rows (stomps and snaps) are populated.

But Global Settings > Stomp/Snap mode only the bottom row (snaps) is populated - why is the top row (stomps) unpopulated (empty)? - is this indicative of a software / firmware problem and thus the limited capacitive functionality?

I assume they must be the same bank of Snapshots in both photos as all i did was change the "Stomp/Snap" order in Global Settings - and the rows swapped instantly (but with 1 becoming blank) - I didn't touch the controller at all in between the two pics (just seconds apart).
Also i haven't assigned anything at all since performing the factory reset 2 days ago.
Also, i tested this with 2 Ethercon cables (including the original 25 footer) and was the same result both times.
Have updated my Line 6 support ticket with this info but so far still no response after about 48 hours.

[HonestOpinion]

5 minutes ago, MrNoisy said:

I assume they must be the same bank of presets in both photos as all i did was change the "Preset/Snap" order in Global Settings - and the rows swapped instantly (but with 1 becoming blank) - I didn't didn't touch the controller at all in between the two pics (just seconds apart).
Also i haven't assigned anything at all since performing the factory reset 2 days ago.
Also, i tested this with 2 Ethercon cables (including the original 25 footer) and was the same result both times.
Have updated my Line 6 support ticket with this info but so far still no response after about 48 hours.

 

Just take a look at the 'Bypass/Controller Assign' tab for this preset in HX Edit. If you don't see any assignments for footswitches 1-5 then you can safely assume the preset was displaying normally in stomp/snap mode with no entries on the top row.

[MrNoisy]

1 hour ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Edited my post above to include caveat about the preset's assignments which could easily result in this display as per design.  In other words, this is normal behavior for any preset that does not have the top row of switches assigned to stomps.

 

Also found this old post from phil_m that seems to indicate that at least in 2019 there did not seem to be unfortunately, a UI test available for the Rack. Might be worth asking Line6 support if one has been added though.

 

Thanks for the info on the UI test for Rack - have added that query to my support ticket too.

 

I found this also - restart with encoders 1 and 6 will enter update mode. Is this a better way to update firmware? 

[MrNoisy]

Oh, as suggested i also moved all the hardware to another room to try at a different location - no change.

Does anyone know if wifi can interfere with capacitive touch?

[MrNoisy]

1 hour ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Just take a look at the 'Bypass/Controller Assign' tab for this preset in HX Edit. If you don't see any assignments for footswitches 1-5 then you can safely assume the preset was displaying normally in stomp/snap mode with no entries on the top row.

It says None. But then i question what is the field entries displaying in the lower (Stomp) row in the top picture (Snap/Stomp mode)?

[datacommando]

3 hours ago, MrNoisy said:

 

I found this also - restart with encoders 1 and 6 will enter update mode. Is this a better way to update firmware? 

Hi,

 

That is the way to do the firmware install when using the Line 6 Updater, rather than HX Edit.

 

To Re-flash the Helix Rack.

 

O.K. go to the "DOWNLOADS" menu at the top of this page and from  "-ALL HARDWARE-" select Helix Rack, then leave the "-ALL SOFTWARE-" as is, now select your PC/ Mac Operating System from under the "-ALL OS-" tab, then click the “GO” button. 

 

From the next page you can select the Firmware 3.11.0 Flash Memory for your Helix Rack, then below that you will need the HX Edit 3.1. Now scroll further down the page a get the Line 6 Updater version 1.9. Download all these bits to your PC/Mac. 
 

First, install HX Edit 3.10 (including the required drivers) and if you have made any presets that you wish to keep then they need to be backed up using HX Edit before updating the Firmware. If everything is fine then proceed to next step. 

 

Next - disconnect the USB cable from your Rack and the computer. Boot the Rack using ENC 1 & 6 to enter update mode. Now reconnect the USB, do not use a hub - some front ports on a PC can act as a hub so use one on the rear. Ensure that no other apps are running in the background - also, it may be advisable to disconnect from the internet. Now launch the Updater and select “Offline Mode”. 
 

Your Helix Rack and current firmware version should show in the window, click on the dark green coloured band and you should now have the option to select the local file - point it at the Flash Memory file that you down loaded previously and let it get on with the update.

When the update completes, the Rack should reboot and start to rebuild the presets, it may take a few minutes. If it doesn’t do this you can perform the reboot to rebuild the presets by holding ENC 1 & 3 while turning on the power to the Rack.

 

When weird stuff starts to happen, reflashing the unit should help, if not raise a ticket with support because anything else is probably beyond the scope of any assistance that can be given here. 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense

 

EDIT:

PLEASE STOP CROSS POSTING THE SAME ISSUE - IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE ACROSS MULTIPLE THREADS!

[MrNoisy]

41 minutes ago, datacommando said:

Hi,

 

That is the way to do the firmware install when using the Line 6 Updater, rather than HX Edit.

 

To Re-flash the Helix Rack.

 

O.K. go to the "DOWNLOADS" menu at the top of this page and from  "-ALL HARDWARE-" select Helix Rack, then leave the "-ALL SOFTWARE-" as is, now select your PC/ Mac Operating System from under the "-ALL OS-" tab, then click the “GO” button. 

 

From the next page you can select the Firmware 3.11.0 Flash Memory for your Helix Rack, then below that you will need the HX Edit 3.1. Now scroll further down the page a get the Line 6 Updater version 1.9. Download all these bits to your PC/Mac. 
 

First, install HX Edit 3.10 (including the required drivers) and if you have made any presets that you wish to keep then they need to be backed up using HX Edit before updating the Firmware. If everything if fine then proceed to next step. 

 

Next - disconnect the USB cable from your Rack and the computer. Boot the Rack using ENC 1 & 6 to enter update mode. Now reconnect the USB, do not use a hub - some front ports on a PC can act as a hub so use one on the rear. Ensure that no other apps are running in the background - also, it may be advisable to disconnect from the internet. Now launch the Updater and select “Offline Mode”. 
 

Your Helix Rack and current firmware version should show in the window, click on the dark green coloured band and you should now have the option to select the local file - point it at the Flash Memory file that you down loaded previously and let it get on with the update.

When the update completes, the Rack should reboot and start to rebuild the presets, it may take a few minutes. If it doesn’t do this you can perform the reboot to rebuild the presets by holding ENC 1 & 3 while turning on the power to the Rack.

 

When weird stuff starts to happen, reflashing the unit should help, if not raise a ticket with support because anything else is probably beyond the scope of any assistance that can be given here. 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense

 

EDIT:

PLEASE STOP CROSS POSTING THE SAME ISSUE - IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE ACROSS MULTIPLE THREADS!

Very helpful info thank you - much appreciated.

[HonestOpinion]

12 hours ago, MrNoisy said:

It says None. But then i question what is the field entries displaying in the lower (Stomp) row in the top picture (Snap/Stomp mode)?

 

The stomps in the bottom row are assigned to footswitches 7 thru 11 so they do show up as they were assigned in this preset when you have "Snap/Stomp" mode selected. Changing the mode to "Stomp/Snap" does not just flip the assignments to the top row. It simply means that if you have already have footswitch assignments for the top row(FS 1-5) they will now be displayed. That is why users who pick one of these modes, e.g. Snap/Stomp or Stomp/Snap, tend to stick with it as they design their presets accordingly to show the stomps on the selected top or bottom row.

 

You can experiment with this by assigning some blocks in a preset to footswitches 1 thru 5 or even just assign a block to every footswitch. Now when you flip modes, e.g. Stomp/Snap, you will see the stomps for the top row displayed.

[MrNoisy]

2 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

The stomps in the bottom row are assigned to footswitches 7 thru 11 so they do show up as they were assigned in this preset when you have "Snap/Stomp" mode selected. Changing the mode to "Stomp/Snap" does not just flip the assignments to the top row. It simply means that if you have already have footswitch assignments for the top row(FS 1-5) they will now be displayed. That is why users who pick one of these modes, e.g. Snap/Stomp or Stomp/Snap, tend to stick with it as they design their presets accordingly to show the stomps on the selected top or bottom row.

 

You can experiment with this by assigning some blocks in a preset to footswitches 1 thru 5 or even just assign a block to every footswitch. Now when you flip modes, e.g. Stomp/Snap, you will see the stomps for the top row displayed.

Ah i see. Fantastic info - thank you very much that will save me some time on what is already proving to be quite a painstaking learning curve - i hadn't realized how complicated this unit is when i went in for it lol. Thanks again. 

[HonestOpinion]

47 minutes ago, MrNoisy said:

Ah i see. Fantastic info - thank you very much that will save me some time on what is already proving to be quite a painstaking learning curve - i hadn't realized how complicated this unit is when i went in for it lol. Thanks again. 

 

I know what you mean but once you get past the initial part of the learning curve and any proprietary quirks it represents a fantastic compromise between a strong feature set and an extremely intuitive interface. A lot of power under the hood especially after many years of firmware upgrades. 

[CraigGT]

There seems to be some confusion here, if you're borrowing cables from your router then they are Ethernet cables not Ethercons.

The connectors you pictured are Ethercons, they are much more rugged and provide a better ground connection.

[HonestOpinion]

57 minutes ago, CraigGT said:

There seems to be some confusion here, if you're borrowing cables from your router then they are Ethernet cables not Ethercons.

The connectors you pictured are Ethercons, they are much more rugged and provide a better ground connection.

 

I didn't notice any confusion over the two types of cables but maybe that was an erroneous assumption. In most applications Ethernet and Ethercon should be interchangeable other than as you say the much more rugged nature of Ethercon cables. The point about the improved ground is interesting though and I wonder if it makes any difference in the operation of the capacitance touch sensing.  Maybe you're on to something there, I don't know? Line6 seems to indicate that it shouldn't matter(quote from the manual below) although a few people here seem to have reported having the best luck with the cable that comes with the Rack(don't believe the one provided is Ethercon, need confirmation as I don't own a Rack). Don't know why the included cable should make any difference other than maybe people were trying third party cables that weren't CAT-5 as recommended by Line6, hmm?

 

Quote from pg. 10 of the Rack 3.0 Rev. D manual:

42. HOST Port Connect Helix Control to Helix Rack via a CAT-5 (included with Helix Control) or Ethercon cable.

 

If Line6 cables working better isn't anecdotal or  coincidental and is in fact due to some unique quality of their CAT-5 cables that should be something that Line6 elaborates on further. Especially if they are somehow proprietary and there is something distinct about the conductivity or grounding of their cables. Seems unlikely though. You would think that any decent manufacturer's CAT-5 cable, Ethercon or not, would work. You would also think cables like a Cat-6 or Cat-7 would work as they are  backwards compatible to a Cat-5 cable on most equipment.

 

[CraigGT]

I don't think it will make any difference either because I suspect all the processing will be done in the Control and communicated to the Rack.

 

Mr Noisy did say "just tried a 3rd Ethercon cable - borrowed from internet router"

I was just pointing out that that wouldn't have been an Ethercon cable.

 

Craig

 

 

[MrNoisy]

Hi all - problem solved - turns out it's working after all - apparently it's supposed to only work in stomp mode. LOL

Thanks for all your help.

[datacommando]

On 6/5/2021 at 3:02 AM, MrNoisy said:

apparently it's supposed to only work in stomp mode.

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by datacommando
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