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Paulzx

Most flexible snap/stomp layout

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Hello all,

 

Small disclaimer here.. I'm revisiting this topic as I can't find the thread where I discussed this with a few of you before and themetalkid too, who did give quite an in depth description.. which I now can't find!

 

So what I want to achieve is the most flexible mix between displaying stomps and snaps. Right now I'm running in 8 snap/stomp mode but obviously that only allows 8 snaps across the top and 8 stomps on the bottom.. but what if I want in some patches more stomps or more snaps?

 

Obviously the stomp snap modes are global across all the patches. I don't want to really toggle the mode switch between stomp and snap, I just want each patch to display with my desired configuration, so is it possible to customise each patch with different amounts of stomps and snaps without it changing all the patches globally?

 

I'm sure themetalkid said you can do something like this in the command centre but I think that would make it a global change wouldn't it?

 

Second disclaimer.. I'm a dummy when it comes to editing the command centre switches, never done from fear of messing everything up so I'm not very familiar with how it works.

 

This is not for playing live by the way so I'm not worried about the practicality of that situation, this is purely for me at home wanting to just fire up the helix and seeing each of my patches with their own custom foot switch layouts.

 

And just to add to that as I'm currently running the lower 8 stomps and upper 8 snaps, if I engage one of the stomps and then hit a snap, the previous stomp stays on even if its switched off in a totally separate snapshot. Is there a way to fix that other than have to physically switch off each stomp before using any of the snap shots?

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57 minutes ago, Paulzx said:

And just to add to that as I'm currently running the lower 8 stomps and upper 8 snaps

 

I'm almost sure that my Helix only has 12 foot switches. Yep - just looked down, and there they are. 6 on top and 6 below! I guess you actually mean 4 Stomp and 4 Snaps = 8 total.

 

If you want to use the command centre to take advantage of what is normally the "UP" and "DOWN" switches then you need to look at this:

 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

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Honestly, the more I use command center the less interested I am in using the default snaps/stomps setup.  It can be a little daunting at first because of the way it's laid out, but once you understand it, it's pretty easy to get whatever you want.

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Hey guy...

 

You just need to set up a preset, and then go into Stomp Mode.  Inside Stomp Mode, you can use Command Center to 'design' your layout however you want.  

 

It took me a bit at the beginning to remember this hierarchy.  Think of it this way (Spoiler Alert: Bad analogy coming)

 

Banks (the City in your address)>Presets (your actual house)>Stomps/Snapshots (Rooms that you do different things within your house).  The standard layouts or command center would be the hallways that give you pathways to get to the rooms that allow you to do different things.  The standard layouts would be like buying any house that has hallways and doorways.  It was built by someone else, and gives you options for getting to your living room (rhythm snap/stomp), kitchen (clean/chorus snap/stomp), game room (lead snap/stomp).  

 

However, with the command center...you can build your own house (preset) and then also design the hallways/doorways in any configuration you want so you can get to whichever sound when you need it.  It does the same as the layouts provided by L6, however, the command center lets you put those snaps/stomps in whatever layout you want for your own performing efficiency.  

 

Again, as always, if you have more questions let me know.  I just had an epiphany of sorts in another thread about command center and how I use it.  

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5 hours ago, datacommando said:

 

I'm almost sure that my Helix only has 12 foot switches. Yep - just looked down, and there they are. 6 on top and 6 below! I guess you actually mean 4 Stomp and 4 Snaps = 8 total.

 

If you want to use the command centre to take advantage of what is normally the "UP" and "DOWN" switches then you need to look at this:

 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

Ah yes not 8 and 8 lol, I meant 8 switch mode and its in 4 stomp 4 snap like you said lol

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4 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

Honestly, the more I use command center the less interested I am in using the default snaps/stomps setup.  It can be a little daunting at first because of the way it's laid out, but once you understand it, it's pretty easy to get whatever you want.

 

Yeah that's what I'm getting at too, are there any decent guides on how to edit command centre?

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4 hours ago, themetallikid said:

Hey guy...

 

You just need to set up a preset, and then go into Stomp Mode.  Inside Stomp Mode, you can use Command Center to 'design' your layout however you want.  

 

It took me a bit at the beginning to remember this hierarchy.  Think of it this way (Spoiler Alert: Bad analogy coming)

 

Banks (the City in your address)>Presets (your actual house)>Stomps/Snapshots (Rooms that you do different things within your house).  The standard layouts or command center would be the hallways that give you pathways to get to the rooms that allow you to do different things.  The standard layouts would be like buying any house that has hallways and doorways.  It was built by someone else, and gives you options for getting to your living room (rhythm snap/stomp), kitchen (clean/chorus snap/stomp), game room (lead snap/stomp).  

 

However, with the command center...you can build your own house (preset) and then also design the hallways/doorways in any configuration you want so you can get to whichever sound when you need it.  It does the same as the layouts provided by L6, however, the command center lets you put those snaps/stomps in whatever layout you want for your own performing efficiency.  

 

Again, as always, if you have more questions let me know.  I just had an epiphany of sorts in another thread about command center and how I use it.  

 

Aha the man himself! That's a good analogy actually. The question now is just mastering the command centre editing. In order to make the edits applicable to just that preset you're working on, you go into stomp mode while you're in the preset?

 

That's the bit I didn't understand because I knew you could go to global settings and access command centre but that would force global changes across all presets right?

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5 minutes ago, Paulzx said:

 

Aha the man himself! That's a good analogy actually. The question now is just mastering the command centre editing. In order to make the edits applicable to just that preset you're working on, you go into stomp mode while you're in the preset?

 

That's the bit I didn't understand because I knew you could go to global settings and access command centre but that would force global changes across all presets right?

 

Command center is not a part of global settings.  It's a separate thing and it applies at the preset level.  If you have snaps/stomps set up in globals, just press the snaps/stomp button on your Helix and you'll be in all stomps.  From there you can assign stomps anywhere you want.  Select the menu button and press the command center button at the bottom of the page and you can setup anything you want on any of the buttons.  Watch the video that was posted above and he gives a quick overview but there are a ton of command center videos on YouTube.

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Thanks for the tips, thats why I was a bit confused about command centre but it makes more sense now

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19 hours ago, Paulzx said:

Yeah that's what I'm getting at too, are there any decent guides on how to edit command centre?

 

The video that is posted in this thread is a great "how to guide" for both HX Edit and on the device itself. 

Don't be afraid of command center.... it is your friend :) 

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Yes, HX Edit makes command center much easier to understand cause you get a visual layout of what you are doing.  It pops up with a blank helix and you literally click and choose dropdowns for each button and your Helix updates in real time so you can see your layout 'grow' essentially.

 

 

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Command center is powerful and some people may find it useful to have all sorts of "wormholes" to go from one preset into another with a press of a button.  I settled on using snapshots and I love it.  I play guitar in Nogu Svelo, for those who happen to know, it's a band that requires a lot of unique trick sounds pretty often. We play to a click track, so all delays are already predetermined for each song -- no need to tap anything in.  I created a preset for every single song.  Even if 2 songs are identical in their sounds, or there is only one sound throughout, I still have a preset for it.  I put my presets in order of the set list, and off I go. 

 

I used to be a pedalboard guy.  Individual pedals on/off tapdance is a pain in the lollipop for this particular band.  There are several points in the show where I go from clean envelope filter sound to a loud lead sound with a heavy delay that spills over and back to the first sound.  It would be pretty much impossible to do that with individual pedals, or the pedalboard mode for that matter.  That's why I use snapshots. 

 

We have one song where I need to momentarily turn on/off the envelope filter for certain accented notes.  Instead using the pedalboard mode with momentary switching, I simply assigned that effect to the EXP pedal.  95% or higher it engages, lower than 95% it disengages immediately. 

 

So that's what works for me.  I spent a lot of time building these presets, and can be daunting and a pain at first.  Once you figure out your main sound, you just create a master preset, and copy it over and make slight modifications.  Command center is great, but I personally don't see the need for it.  For my momentary engagement effects I can get by with my expression pedal, so I use snapshots exlusively.

 

I played a gig for the first time in ages in front of a lot of people this past weekend.  This pic was from the sound check.  

 

 

 

 

 

648573152_ScreenShot2021-06-06at10_49_10PM.png.420a42ebfe91740e91b17f8df6f14e77.png

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I don't think the question is about snapshots versus stomps.  It's about board layout and access to either, which is why the discussion centered so quickly around the Command Center..

Command Center isn't just about "wormholes": to jump between presets and it certainly doesn't enforce any limit on using snapshots.  In fact it enhances the concept of snapshots with the introduction of instant commands.  It's more about versatility in how your preset is organized rather than enforcing any tradition layout such as snaps/stomp or all snapshots which was the concern of the OP.

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I run the top 4 buttons for selecting presets and the lower 4 for snapshots within each preset (this is a global setting).

 

I play in cover-bands and this setup gets me through pretty much all of the songs. However, there are situations where I may need to switch on/off certain blocks or need to have access to further snapshots. This is where command center comes in and it is a great tool to have and actually very easy to program using the HX Edit software (I don't know if/how it works from the unit itself).

 

To give you an example, I have one preset with 4 snapshots: Clean, Drive, Gain, Lead. These snapshots can be selected using the bottom four switches of the Helix (well... the LT in my case). If I engage stomp mode however I get 4 additional snapshots at the bottom row "CleanFX, Drive+, Gain+, Lead+ and in addition some specific stomps on the upper foot-switches. In particular I I have a stomp for the polycapo effect that allows me drop one (or two) semitones. I may also have an additional effect that I can turn on/off (e.g. 2nd delay, or a filter)

 

I've tried experimenting using command center to select the next/previous preset (yes, you can do that !!!), but for me that creates too much complexity and anyhow 95% of the time my standard snapshots are sufficient to get me through the songs.

 

Hope this helps a bit. Don't be afraid of experimenting. Just select an empty preset and have a go at it. You won't break the Helix nor will your other presets suffer from what you are doing.... just experiment, make mistakes and fix them.... and if you completely messed up... Copy an empty preset over what you did and start over again

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On 6/6/2021 at 2:18 PM, themetallikid said:

Yes, HX Edit makes command center much easier to understand cause you get a visual layout of what you are doing.  It pops up with a blank helix and you literally click and choose dropdowns for each button and your Helix updates in real time so you can see your layout 'grow' essentially.

 

 

 

Excellent thanks for putting me on the right track. What a revelation this is!

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13 hours ago, theElevators said:

Command center is powerful and some people may find it useful to have all sorts of "wormholes" to go from one preset into another with a press of a button.  I settled on using snapshots and I love it.  I play guitar in Nogu Svelo, for those who happen to know, it's a band that requires a lot of unique trick sounds pretty often. We play to a click track, so all delays are already predetermined for each song -- no need to tap anything in.  I created a preset for every single song.  Even if 2 songs are identical in their sounds, or there is only one sound throughout, I still have a preset for it.  I put my presets in order of the set list, and off I go. 

 

I used to be a pedalboard guy.  Individual pedals on/off tapdance is a pain in the lollipop for this particular band.  There are several points in the show where I go from clean envelope filter sound to a loud lead sound with a heavy delay that spills over and back to the first sound.  It would be pretty much impossible to do that with individual pedals, or the pedalboard mode for that matter.  That's why I use snapshots. 

 

We have one song where I need to momentarily turn on/off the envelope filter for certain accented notes.  Instead using the pedalboard mode with momentary switching, I simply assigned that effect to the EXP pedal.  95% or higher it engages, lower than 95% it disengages immediately. 

 

So that's what works for me.  I spent a lot of time building these presets, and can be daunting and a pain at first.  Once you figure out your main sound, you just create a master preset, and copy it over and make slight modifications.  Command center is great, but I personally don't see the need for it.  For my momentary engagement effects I can get by with my expression pedal, so I use snapshots exlusively.

 

I played a gig for the first time in ages in front of a lot of people this past weekend.  This pic was from the sound check.  

 

 

 

 

 

648573152_ScreenShot2021-06-06at10_49_10PM.png.420a42ebfe91740e91b17f8df6f14e77.png

 

 

Interesting to hear how you're doing it with snapshots, but as duned in dragon mentioned, it was more about opening up the flexibility between stomps and snap shots. I totally understand how the snap shots long their own are ideal in a band set list because you're playing those songs the same way every time. I'm not lucky enough to be doing what you're doing haha I'm just playing at home so every time I jump on a preset that I like, it won't be to play the exact same song each time, I'll be jamming and experimenting hence needing the extra flexibility

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8 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

I don't think the question is about snapshots versus stomps.  It's about board layout and access to either, which is why the discussion centered so quickly around the Command Center..

Command Center isn't just about "wormholes": to jump between presets and it certainly doesn't enforce any limit on using snapshots.  In fact it enhances the concept of snapshots with the introduction of instant commands.  It's more about versatility in how your preset is organized rather than enforcing any tradition layout such as snaps/stomp or all snapshots which was the concern of the OP.

 

Exactly right my original question was a little different 

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2 hours ago, Hillman1312 said:

I run the top 4 buttons for selecting presets and the lower 4 for snapshots within each preset (this is a global setting).

 

I play in cover-bands and this setup gets me through pretty much all of the songs. However, there are situations where I may need to switch on/off certain blocks or need to have access to further snapshots. This is where command center comes in and it is a great tool to have and actually very easy to program using the HX Edit software (I don't know if/how it works from the unit itself).

 

To give you an example, I have one preset with 4 snapshots: Clean, Drive, Gain, Lead. These snapshots can be selected using the bottom four switches of the Helix (well... the LT in my case). If I engage stomp mode however I get 4 additional snapshots at the bottom row "CleanFX, Drive+, Gain+, Lead+ and in addition some specific stomps on the upper foot-switches. In particular I I have a stomp for the polycapo effect that allows me drop one (or two) semitones. I may also have an additional effect that I can turn on/off (e.g. 2nd delay, or a filter)

 

I've tried experimenting using command center to select the next/previous preset (yes, you can do that !!!), but for me that creates too much complexity and anyhow 95% of the time my standard snapshots are sufficient to get me through the songs.

 

Hope this helps a bit. Don't be afraid of experimenting. Just select an empty preset and have a go at it. You won't break the Helix nor will your other presets suffer from what you are doing.... just experiment, make mistakes and fix them.... and if you completely messed up... Copy an empty preset over what you did and start over again

 

Yeah I think that's the way to go, try a test patch for editing. How you've currently got yours set up 4 and 4 is how mine is but I don't want to keep engaging stomp mode to access different things, I want it all laid out the way I want it to start with.

 

Incidentally when you're in the 4 and 4 mode, when you hit a singular stomp then go straight into a snap shot, does your stomp stay on regardless until you turn it off? Mine all stay engaged until turned off again which is a bit of a handicap in that mode if you want to jump quickly between snaps and stomps.

 

That was actually part of my original question also because I'll still have that issue after editing the layout with command centre

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9 hours ago, Paulzx said:

Incidentally when you're in the 4 and 4 mode, when you hit a singular stomp then go straight into a snap shot, does your stomp stay on regardless until you turn it off? Mine all stay engaged until turned off again which is a bit of a handicap in that mode if you want to jump quickly between snaps and stomps.

 

That was actually part of my original question also because I'll still have that issue after editing the layout with command centre

 

Global Settings>Preferences>Snapshot Edits>DISCARD

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9 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

Global Settings>Preferences>Snapshot Edits>DISCARD

 

Excellent thanks, that's my first job to do later lol

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Don't mix up snapshot behaviour with stomp behaviour.

 

The snapshot setting will mean that your snapshot, when selected, returns to the state in which it was originally programmed. This setting will only apply to "snapshot enabled" settings and stomps.

 

However, you can also disable "snapshot control" (or whatever it is called exactly) by right clicking on the block and deselecting the same. 

This will allow you to control individual blocks regardless of which snapshot you are using.

 

So, by way of example, in my use case I have a poly-capo that allows me go to 1 semitone down. Once engaged I don't want this to reset itself (i.e. bypassed) once I change a snapshot within a preset. To accomplish that I turn of the "snapshot control" of the block. If I would not do that I would start the song in Eb for a rhythm tone and then all of a sudden move back to E when switching to my lead snapshot.... the audience and my band mates won't like that :-)

 

I hope this makes sense..... a bit difficult to explain in writing.

 

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34 minutes ago, Hillman1312 said:

Don't mix up snapshot behaviour with stomp behaviour.

 

The snapshot setting will mean that your snapshot, when selected, returns to the state in which it was originally programmed. This setting will only apply to "snapshot enabled" settings and stomps.

 

However, you can also disable "snapshot control" (or whatever it is called exactly) by right clicking on the block and deselecting the same. 

This will allow you to control individual blocks regardless of which snapshot you are using.

 

So, by way of example, in my use case I have a poly-capo that allows me go to 1 semitone down. Once engaged I don't want this to reset itself (i.e. bypassed) once I change a snapshot within a preset. To accomplish that I turn of the "snapshot control" of the block. If I would not do that I would start the song in Eb for a rhythm tone and then all of a sudden move back to E when switching to my lead snapshot.... the audience and my band mates won't like that :-)

 

I hope this makes sense..... a bit difficult to explain in writing.

 

 

To clarify:

 

The Global Setting "Snapshot Edits" applies to ALL changes made to a Snapshot, both Bypass and Parameters. The setting referred to above, "Snapshot Bypass", accessed in a block's right-click menu, applies ONLY to that block, and ONLY to the Bypass setting. So, if a block is normally ON/OFF depending on the Snapshot, you can turn it OFF/ON and have that setting persist across all Snapshots regardless of the saved state, and regardless of the Global "Snapshot Edits" setting. This way, if you want most blocks' bypass settings to return to the saved state when changing Snapshots, you set "Snapshot Edits" to DISCARD. Then, if there's a SPECIFIC block whose Bypass setting you want to PERSIST across Snapshot changes, such as the Poly Capo in the example cited by @Hillman1312, you disable "Snapshot Bypass" on that block.

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23 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

To clarify:

 

The Global Setting "Snapshot Edits" applies to ALL changes made to a Snapshot, both Bypass and Parameters. The setting referred to above, "Snapshot Bypass", accessed in a block's right-click menu, applies ONLY to that block, and ONLY to the Bypass setting. So, if a block is normally ON/OFF depending on the Snapshot, you can turn it OFF/ON and have that setting persist across all Snapshots regardless of the saved state, and regardless of the Global "Snapshot Edits" setting. This way, if you want most blocks' bypass settings to return to the saved state when changing Snapshots, you set "Snapshot Edits" to DISCARD. Then, if there's a SPECIFIC block whose Bypass setting you want to PERSIST across Snapshot changes, such as the Poly Capo in the example cited by @Hillman1312, you disable "Snapshot Bypass" on that block.


That’s clever, did not know that!  Thanks

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I would like to do two things in command center:

 

1. have the bank up button (#1) actually go up to the next bank whenever I select it.  Now, when I select it, it shows the current bank of presets for me to select a preset.  I would like to to go to the next two banks (i.e.  I am on banks 1&2 ... I step on the bank up button and I want to see banks 3&4).

 

2. I would like it to mimic the behavior of clicking the bank up and down buttons at the same time.  Now, it will temporarily change from stomp to snapshot mode... when I select a snapshot, it activates what's in the snapshot AND goes back to stomp mode.  This is different than the mode button.  The mode button will stay in stomp or snapshot mode until you hit the mode button again.   I usually am in stomp mode.  I have snapshots to set different delay settings and/or reverb settings.  I use the snapshot bypass on to keep the snapshot from changing blocks I do not want changed.  This way, in stomp mode I have 8 buttons for stuff, then can hit both the up and down buttons and temporarily have access to the 8 snapshots, then it goes back to the stomps.  I hope that is not confusing the way I wrote it :).  So my wish is to have a button that goes into what I call "temporary snapshot" mode that lets me select a snapshot and then go back to stomps.  I can do this now, but I have to hit two buttons at once.  I am not that talented :)

 

I am open to suggestions... or a different way to approach this.  I have the Helix lt  and I really could use those two extra buttons in stomp mode that the Helix has.  

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