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Seperate outputs with and without IRs


rick_hollis
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Hi all. I need to buy a amp modeller/effect processor and wasn't sure if the Helix or Helix LT would allow me to output my stereo signal to FOH via the XLR outs while feeding the same signal without IR's to my stereo power amp and cabs on stage. 

Can this be done easily ?

Thank you

Rick

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Not sure whether this is correct in the case of helix/helix LT as I'm using hx stomp, but I'm having problems with figuring out a way to make your setup work in my situation without the signal to FOH collapsing to mono, as the stereo FX has to be before the IR block (if I want effects to also go to my guitar cab) and IR blocks are always mono, hence the collapse of stereo effects. Im not in front of my unit now, but iirc there might be stereo cabs inside the unit that could solve this issue, as long as you are fine with not running IRs, dual IR block might work too. 

 

The reason being that to send signal without ir applied to a guitar cab all effects has to be pre send-block and IR just after send block, it's a catch-22 situation for me but might be ways around I haven't figured out yet.

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40 minutes ago, rick_hollis said:

Hi all. I need to buy a amp modeller/effect processor and wasn't sure if the Helix or Helix LT would allow me to output my stereo signal to FOH via the XLR outs while feeding the same signal without IR's to my stereo power amp and cabs on stage. 

Can this be done easily ?

 

There is no way to tell an output to "ignore" the IR or CAB blocks... but there are a couple of methods. 

 

My favorite way to do this is to insert a SEND just prior to the IR block(s)... and use the send to feed your amp.  If you are already using the loops/sends for anything else, then this option probably won't work. 

 

The other method is to create a parallel path at the end of your chain.... where you want the cabs to be. A merge block will automatically appear, so you will have to move that down as well then you can assign the 1st output (without cabs) to the 1/4, and the 2nd path (with cabs) to the XLRs. In a Stereo setup this option will only work with dual cabinets, but it will not work with IR's because there is no stereo IR block (yet). A stereo IR will require use of the parallel path just for that. 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, rick_hollis said:

Hi all. I need to buy a amp modeller/effect processor and wasn't sure if the Helix or Helix LT would allow me to output my stereo signal to FOH via the XLR outs while feeding the same signal without IR's to my stereo power amp and cabs on stage. 

Can this be done easily ?

Thank you

Rick

Select a cab/IR block in a patch and put it on path B.

Now select the mixer ( the symbol appears when you move to the junction of the two paths) and put it on path B, too.

Done!

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2 hours ago, ossianott said:

The reason being that to send signal without ir applied to a guitar cab all effects has to be pre send-block and IR just after send block, it's a catch-22 situation for me but might be ways around I haven't figured out yet.

 

The Dual Cab Block is stereo. If you MUST use IRs, you're SOL with the Stomp.

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1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

 

The Dual Cab Block is stereo. If you MUST use IRs, you're SOL with the Stomp.

Do you have any tip of a cab/mic working fine with the epic amp or rectifire for really low tuned metal? I'm tuning my 7string guitar to C on 6th string and G(49 Hz) on 7th. Would be cool!

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34 minutes ago, ossianott said:

Do you have any tip of a cab/mic working fine with the epic amp or rectifire for really low tuned metal? I'm tuning my 7string guitar to C on 6th string and G(49 Hz) on 7th. Would be cool!

 

I play blues/classic rock, so Eb is as low as I go.

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Further to the above - IIRC, the amp cab interaction/response curve is baked into the Amp+Cab combo. The chosen mic and distance is based on somebody's perception of what works best (or their personal preference) for that Amp+Cab in the genre that combo is most popularly used in. I'd start there, and research what others who play like you are using.

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I just tried this with my stomp and also to get the built in cabs to sound similar to my fav IR's, and it worked rather good I must say. So to the OP, yes it's possible and easy with any of the helix products, just insert a SEND L/R block just before your stereo cabinet block, and all your stereo effects will work both for cabs on stage plus for the simulated cab going to FOH. Not sure whether the SEND outputs of the Helix LT are balanced or unbalanced, my guess is unbalanced. Also I don't know if it will work with Impulse responses, but it's not too hard to find a cab that sounds good with a bit of global eq applied to match your favourite IRs if you have any, I've only tried on studio monitors thus far tho. Good luck!

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2 hours ago, rick_hollis said:

Thanks guys. I will try a demo version of the Helix Native plugin and see if I like the stereo cab block. I would prefer to have a stereo IR block but will try your suggestions. 

Cheers

Ur welcome, when evaluating cabs I would dial a patch with you favourite IR that you like, then use mono cabinet for the patches you try to match as you won't have to make the same changes of mic/distance/early reflections/filters twice, as with the stereo cab. Find a few you think is nice and sound similar to your ir, make presets for each. Then try with global eq to match it even further, then when you find something you like (hopefully) use the same settings for both Cabs in a stereo cab instance instead of mono.

 

That way you can in the quickest manner go thru as many cab/mic combinations as possible, which can be quite overwhelming even with mono cabs.

 

Good thing is global eq only applies to the main out and your signal going to your stage cabs will be unaffected.

 

Good luck!

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