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Voting for Pod Go requests for extra flexibility - the problem with 'Ideascale'....


voxman55
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....Is that ideas are scattered/duplicated/shown in different ways, and i'm not sure most customers know about this, where it is, and/or appreciate this is what Line 6 looks at. If Line 6 do look at Ideascale to get a feel for what customers want, then will they identify the trends by linking common requests together?  I've tried to 'put together' some of the Ideascale requests that one way or another are all saying users want more flexibility re the current fixed patch approach, and I think that goes hand in hand with helping users to better understand DSP and have information of DSP allocations with a DSP % marker for each amp/cab/fx, and a total DSP meter.

 

Digital Igloo (Line 6) has stated that:

"The short answer: POD Go wasn't designed for the type of guitarist who frequents TGP, which is why I've spent so many cycles here shouting "It's not a Helix" over and over.

The long answer: DSP meters are, IMO, a terrible experience, even for Helix. We don't want our users obsessing over which amp or effect uses more or less DSP; we want them choosing what sounds best to their ears. We also want POD Go users to almost never run out of DSP; opening more blocks to maybe squeeze in an extra compressor for the 10% of users who understand dynamic DSP (decidedly not POD Go's target market)—at the risk of the other 90% hitting the wall much sooner—is a non-starter. Ease of use and predictability are key here.

We have a list of things we'd still like to add to POD Go—many of which have already been requested—but neither extra blocks nor more flexible DSP allocation are on it."

 

But I think Line 6 may be a bit 'set in their thinking' and/or may not necessarily have a clear picture of the growing demand for the Pod Go training wheels to be taken off.  Common themes are:

 

1. Give users DSP information (the Zoom G6/G11 does this and I think the Mooer GE300 may do this too - even Helix users have asked for this!)

2. Give Pod Go 1 or 2 extra blocks. It doesn't increase DSP, but the option will give greater flexibility

3. Give the option to free-up DSP by removing the amp/cab block for those that will sometimes want to use Pod Go for pure FX

 

Now, whilst releasing even all the EQ/wah/noisegate/volume/fx loop isn't even close to allowing a compressor, the theme of users wanting more flexibility is the issue here:

 

The following Ideascale links refer - So, if you want these things, please vote in each one - current votes as at today's date shown in brackets:

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/POD-GO-Allow-Amp-and-Cab-IR-blocks-to-be-replaced-w-other-fx/990127-23508  (9)

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Pod-Go-Equalizer-not-be-a-fixed-block/990390-23508# (33) 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Give-Pod-Go-1-or-2-additional-user-blocks-to-maximise-DSP/1000649-23508 (16)

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/POD-GO-Function-suggestions/1001513-23508 (9)

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Pod-Go/1011679-23508 (11)

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Freedom-Pod-Go-Now!/1005827-23508 (19)

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/DSP-information/1015976-23508 (37)

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Pod-go-effects-blocks/1019288-23508 (12)

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Free-the-bocks-in-PODGO/1024488-235 (4)

 

And Helix users who want a DSP meter/DSP info (this is requested in loads of other ideas, but included in a big wish list):

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/DSP-Usage-meter/918997-23508 (47)

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/DSP-Meter/867648-23508 (115)

 

The only way we might be able to get Line 6 to reconsider its position is to demonstrate the demand on themes that its customers really want!

 

 

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5 hours ago, voxman55 said:

We don't want our users obsessing over which amp or effect uses more or less DSP; we want them choosing what sounds best to their ears. We also want POD Go users to almost never run out of DSP; opening more blocks to maybe squeeze in an extra compressor for the 10% of users who understand dynamic DSP (decidedly not POD Go's target market)—at the risk of the other 90% hitting the wall much sooner—is a non-starter. Ease of use and predictability are key here.

 

That seems like a terrible response... Or maybe I just don't understand the logic behind the comment.  My take on it:

 

1) We don't want our users obsessing over which amp or effect uses more or less DSP -- And yet people already do because as we're trying to build patches all of a sudden we can't add the 4th block we wanted and we have to go online to try to figure this sh!t out and work around these limitations.

2) we want them choosing what sounds best to their ears. --  Everyone also wants this.  Adding a % value of a DSP would not stop people from choosing what sounds best to their ears, but it would help them build patches that in the end sounds best to their ears.

3) We also want POD Go users to almost never run out of DSP  -- Well that's a fail because most people will quickly run out of DSP, then it's a PITA to work around the issue without knowing which effect uses less/more DSP.

4)  opening more blocks ...  90% hitting the wall much sooner—is a non-starter  --  Not sure what he was responding to, but if you give the DSP % and add a block slot if there is still room for another effect, you don't "hit the wall much sooner"...!

 

Anyway, just imho a very bad take.  It really sounds like someone doesn't want to do something and is looking for excuses, rather than having pertinent and logical reasons. 

- They say they don't want users to run out of DSP, but they don't give users the tools not to run out of DSP. 

- They say they want users to choose what sounds best to their ears, but they won't allow them to make the patches they want because they're locking out blocks even if DSP is available, for absolutely frivolous reasons. 

- They say they don't want users to obsess about DSP, but they make DSP management as obtuse as possible, and force users to go online and research that sh!t to death because the product as is is incomprehensible and they don't give users the info they need to use it properly...!  

 

Very disappointing answer, as you said, features the majority of users would love to have implemented.

 

Too bad we can't make a poll here, can we on ideascale?  % of users who want the features vs don't want the features.  And if really some users, for whatever reason, just can't handle seeing a DSP % usage or having an extra block appear if they have room (LOL does such a person even exist?!) then you can make the 2 options disabled by default, and allow users to activate it if they choose in the global settings.  And in all honesty, I can't imagine a grandpa/grandma that wouldn't welcome the features.  But yeah, that notion is so silly, it's obviously looking for excuses for not doing it.

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I absolutely agree 100% with your take @grdGo33 but it's only if customers lend their support that we might be able to influence Line 6.  Not sure what might be the best way to try and take this forward and am open to ideas.  I'm toying with possibly doing a YouTube vid - fully respectful to Line 6 of course, but to try and see whether there's possibly a sizeable consensus here.  

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The more I've thought about this, the more odd I find Line 6's perspective on Pod Go, and it's apparent intransigence to give customers more flexibility to see DSP usage, have more user blocks, and allow the fixed amp/cab block to be released. 

So, I thought I'd put this from the perspective of a story of a supermarket customer, shopping for food.  Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin:

 

A shopping tale 

Once upon a time, there was a supermarket customer (me! lol)

 

I have a £10 voucher (my DSP allowance) with ‘happy store’ to do my daily shop. I had to pay a one off entry fee (cost of buying Pod Go) to be a Happy Store (Line 6) customer, but I like the shop. It’s local, friendly, comfortable, has a great display layout of its food that makes everything really easy to see, and has everything I need that I want to eat.  And there’s some good news because the shop tells me that in addition to my £10 allowance it will give me some basic ‘essential’ freebies.  These are kind of like the cute little portions you get in an in-flight meal, and all together aren't worth enough to buy even a chocolate bar, but hey, these are free:

 

  • An individual bread roll (I can choose granary, plain, soft, crusty etc) - EQ
  • A pat of butter (I can choose salted, unsalted, the make etc) Volume pedal
  • A sachet of milk (I can choose full fat, semi-skimmed, skimmed, oatmilk) Wah
  • A single sachet/bag of a hot drink (I can choose coffee, a teabag, hot chocolate, malt drink or a cup-a-soup) FX loop
  • A clean up wipe noisegate

 

But out of my £10 I have to buy:

 

1.      a meat item, but I can only have 1 Amp model

2.      a vegetable item, but I can only have one cab model

 

But after that I can then go to the aisles and choose from any of the following categories, but I can’t have more than 4 items (FX) in total.  

 

·        Soft drink

·        Wine

·        Pudding

·        Pasta

·        Biscuits

·        Fresh fruit

·        Dairy products

·        Bakery product

 

So, I wander around and choose the following:

  • Meat – rump steak
  • Veg – mixed veg
  • Bakery product – a pain au chocolate
  • Dairy product – a pack of cheddar cheese
  • Biscuits – Ritz crackers
  • Pudding - Sticky toffee pudding

 

So, I go to the checkout and the conversation goes like this

Terribly sorry, but it comes to more than £10. 

OK, so what do I need to get rid of?

What was the last item you bought?

Sticky toffee pudding!

Well try putting that back or try changing it for something else from the pudding range, or don’t have a pudding and buy something else

But I like sticky toffee pudding – and when I went to the aisles, there were no prices (ie no DSP cost indicators) - so I don't know how much it is and what might be a cheaper pudding?

Yes, that's because we don’t think you need to know the prices because it could confuse and distract you from choosing what you want to eat

But you are stopping me from choosing what I want because I can’t have the sticky toffee pudding!?

OK, well you CAN have your sticky toffee pudding put only if you put something else back or change something else to an item that's cheaper by enough, so that you don't go over your £10 voucher

But how do I know what to think about putting back or swapping unless you tell me how much everything costs?

You have a £10 allowance. We think if you knew the prices it would ruin your shopping experience with us

Yes I know that there's a £10 limit, but that doesn’t help me!  What would help me is to know how much you are charging me for the food items I choose. Look, your competitor shop across the road shows its food prices!  

Oh, well if you’re not happy shopping here, you should go to the other shop but their food quality isn’t as good and we give you more options.

But then I'd have to pay another entry fee and whilst they have some good offers and lines, you offer lines that they don't.  Look, there’s a man on the corner (Benvesco's DSP usage charts for PG, Helix etc)) who has worked out your prices and he’s showing them for people to see.

Oh is there? Well, he’s nothing to do with us but fine, go and see his price list

But I shouldn’t have to go round the corner to look through a long price list each time I want to check a price.  You should be telling me – this is your store, your food, and I’m your customer! Why won’t you tell me your prices?

Because we don’t want it to influence your decision on what to buy

Look we’ve been there and you are influencing me, you always tell me when I'm over-spending but you're giving me no information to try and understand what my selected shopping costs, and what alternatives cost, so you're not putting me in a place where I can make informed decisions!  You’re not exactly being helpful here are you, but OK I’ll take a guess and swap the sticky toffee pudding for a crème caramel

Ah that’s good you’re now under your total £10 limit.

Great, so how much was my shop?

Under £10

Yes I know that, but how much change do I have?

We keep the change!

But what if there’s enough left over to buy something else I’d like?

Tough I'm afraid, you can only have up to four items on top of your meat, veg & ‘freebies’

OK, but tomorrow I don’t want meat & veg – I’m giving meat up for a few days (I just want to use FX when going through my real tube amp). So can I choose some more of the other items if I don’t buy any meat?

No, you have to buy meat – but you can choose some cheaper meat so you’ll have more to spend on the other 4 items, but you still can’t have more than 4 other items

So how do I know what meat is the cheapest? Oh, I forgot – you won’t tell me the prices. But even if I found that out from the man on the corner (and I just saw, its sausages), I DON’T WANT ANY MEAT!  I might do in a few days, but not tomorrow.  Why can’t I choose?

Because we don’t think you’re able to make those type of choices. We think most of our ‘Happy Shop’ customers will always want meat, and if we gave them choice, it would confuse them.  You can opt not to put the meat and veg in your basket, but we'll still charge you for them anyway.

But why can’t I have more than 4 other items?

Because there’s more chance you’ll go over your £10 allowance, and we don’t want you to get upset when we have to tell you this more often.

But if you put prices on your food and as I put items in my basket you had a little counter telling me the total cost as I go, I’d be able to choose my food items and know that when I came to the checkout, I was within my £10 voucher! That way, you wouldn’t have to send me away to tell me to change something, I wouldn’t get stressed out, I could do my shopping way quicker, and everyone would be happy!

As I said, we think it’s a bad idea for our customers to be confused by prices and choosing more than 4 items. We want you to choose food based on what you want, not the price. You might be an exception, but Happy Shop customers are generally very simple folk, and they want us to help them keep things simple

But you’re not helping to keep things simple; what's causing the confusion is you’re making it complicated and being secretive by not telling your customers the prices and letting them choose!?

Ah, if you’re a bit more savvy than our other customers, we have another shop which is our Ultra Happy Shop store (Line 6 Helix Floor/Helix LT). This offers a much bigger selection, you can choose whatever you want, and have as many items as you want up to £20!

OK, but I’ve seen that store. The one off entry fee is much more expensive than I’m paying here. Also, I don’t like it. There are too many aisles and too many things I just don’t want or need, the store is too big and my shopping would take too long, and I don’t like how it displays its food, which isn't as nicely presented as Happy Store. Also, it’s baskets are too big and heavy for what I need.  I also don't need £20 of food - I'm very happy with my £10 voucher - I just want to get the most value from it and your reasons for not helping me to do this make no sense!  it feels like you're trying to push me to become a customer of your more expensive 'Ultra Happy Shop'  when I can't afford it, and don't need or want it.

Well, those are your choices with us I'm afraid

But don't you listen to your existing customers and what they want?

Well, you can submit your ideas in our suggestion box (Line 6 IdeaScale) and we look at these, but we're not making any guarantees of what we might take notice of.

OK, so where's the suggestion box?

Ah, it's not here and we don't openly advertise it but if you ask some of our other customers, they should be able to point you!

You're not exactly making this easy, are you! 

 

So – what do you think of the customer service from Happy Store?!  Because that's Line 6's take on Pod Go!

So if you want Line 6 to bring in these changes and improve your shopping experience, please vote on the Ideascale links in the OP thread! 

 

 

 

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Just getting rid of the fixed blocks would be great.  I don't need a wah pedal, or eq, or cab and Amp or send return to be fixed.  If we could make our own choices as to how we use this that would be awesome.  As it is, I am unable to create the sounds I need for about 33% of my music because of fixed blocks.  The boss GT1 is more flexible for $200.  I am sorry I sold it and bought the Pod.   The best device for the price and flexibility is the Pod HD500X.

 

I understand this isn't a Helix.   I have a Helix.   But letting the user choose how they play music is a big plus.  I purchased it for portability and the line 6 normal stance on flexibility and customer service.  Hopefully they aren't going the way of other companies who get to big for being customer oriented. 

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On 7/12/2021 at 3:03 PM, voxman55 said:

No, you have to buy meat – but you can choose some cheaper meat so you’ll have more to spend on the other 4 items, but you still can’t have more than 4 other items

So how do I know what meat is the cheapest? Oh, I forgot – you won’t tell me the prices. But even if I found that out from the man on the corner (and I just saw, its sausages), I DON’T WANT ANY MEAT!  I might do in a few days, but not tomorrow.  Why can’t I choose?

 

"How can you eat your pudding if you don't eat your meat?!?"

Sorry, off-topic.


I'm glad you encouraged people to vote and I've done so.

 

 

On 7/12/2021 at 3:03 PM, voxman55 said:

 

 

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  • 5 months later...

@Clsc Please help me understand exactly why you think you need the ice delay when Pod Go already has so many delay options?  

 

 I'm also interested to understand why you think you need a polypitch? What would you be using it for? 

 

What type of music do you play, are you a home player, a gigging player, or a recording/ studio player? 

 

I'd also be interested to know if you've actually played a Zoom G11 and used its polypitch? 

 

I appreciate you are not English and therefore English isn't your first language but I'm afraid I don't quite understand the first part of your request relating to Helix. Please could you better explain what you mean and also what you mean by 'tracks between presets' please? 

 

 

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OK..
Ice Delay.
I have some songs that use this Ice delay effect.
besides being a beautiful effect,
I would trade the Euclidean Delay, it's the Glitch Delay, for an Ice Delay.

 

 

poly pitch.
I play in a cover band,
where I use the standard tuning, + 3 other tunings on different songs
D.C. A#.

band
I play in my band at home,
We trade Heavy metal , Rock , it 's Blues
among other heavier things, it depends on the presentation.

 

 

Zoom G11
I tested the PolyShift ZOOM,  and I confess that I could use it live without any problem,
unlike Simple Pitch POD GO.
besides, I believe and have faith that Line 6
might be able to create something similar better than a Simple Pitch dedicated to POD GO.

 

 

Helix.
I meant that in addition to being able to save the user model defaults,
they could add the function Save the user model defaults Favorites like in HX 
favorite  .fav

That's it... Thank you.

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Thanks @Clsc that's helpful and makes sense.  I'm a covers band player too. Re the favourites, you can save these eg gig patches by importing & exporting a group of patches without having to do a full backup.  But a favourites area within Pod Go itself to group favourite patches would certainly be useful.  

 

I have a patch that I use the pitch-shift to down-tune to Eb (eg sweet child of mine, and some SRV/Hendrix things too) that works very well in both chords and single notes.  Haven't tried other tunings as I have no need.  When you say D,C, A# are you refering to a polycapod or open tunings?

 

 

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6 hours ago, voxman55 said:

Thanks @Clsc that's helpful and makes sense.  I'm a covers band player too. Re the favourites, you can save these eg gig patches by importing & exporting a group of patches without having to do a full backup.  But a favourites area within Pod Go itself to group favourite patches would certainly be useful.  

 

I have a patch that I use the pitch-shift to down-tune to Eb (eg sweet child of mine, and some SRV/Hendrix things too) that works very well in both chords and single notes.  Haven't tried other tunings as I have no need.  When you say D,C, A# are you refering to a polycapod or open tunings?

 

 

Cool... your band must be very top.

the tunings I use are

 

Clean
1 semitone above
1 tone up

 

Metal
1 tone down
2 tone down
3 tone down

 

it would be great if line 6 could , were able
to create something similar to PolyShift Do ZOOM G6. G11
for POD GO,


I really liked the POD GO, the Line 6 modeling,

I didn't want to leave Line 6 just for the simple fact that POD GO doesn't have a PolyShift yet.

 

well I think that's all, 
thanks for the good chat

6 hours ago, voxman55 said:

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/18/2021 at 3:40 PM, galliar said:

Just getting rid of the fixed blocks would be great.  I don't need a wah pedal, or eq, or cab and Amp or send return to be fixed.  If we could make our own choices as to how we use this that would be awesome.  As it is, I am unable to create the sounds I need for about 33% of my music because of fixed blocks.  The boss GT1 is more flexible for $200.  I am sorry I sold it and bought the Pod.   The best device for the price and flexibility is the Pod HD500X.

 

I understand this isn't a Helix.   I have a Helix.   But letting the user choose how they play music is a big plus.  I purchased it for portability and the line 6 normal stance on flexibility and customer service.  Hopefully they aren't going the way of other companies who get to big for being customer oriented. 

You have a helix, and you're complaining about the pod go? lollipoping WHY?

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My wish list would be

1) Volume meter to help normalize patch levels.

2) A fix to prevent volume glitch/swell when single button controls gain and channel volume but each parameter is changed with slight delay.

 

Please!!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/3/2022 at 3:52 PM, voxman55 said:

Line 6 increased the blocks in HX Stomp from 6 to 8 but this coincided with polypitcg effects being added and folk complained about the DSP drain. Hence they are very reluctant to add blocks to Pod Go. But recent posts on The Gear Page suggest that if sufficient votes are evidenced on Ideascale, the door might not be completely closed here.

 

Digital Igloo said "Feel free to keep pushing the expanded block thing, too (stranger things have happened), and IdeaScale is the place to get the most eyes on it."

 

(quote from another thread, but bumping this one instead)

 

That's pretty sad...   Just sounds like excuses, it's very easy to say that people didn't demand this feature because it didn't get enough votes...  But how many PGO users are on ideascales, and how many know about this feature, or that they can vote for it on ideascale?!    Just to know about any of this, you have to visit this support forums or 'the gear page' forum's pod go thread or whatnot, learn of existence of the feature by reading a bunch of posts, and then you have to REGISTER to ideascale, wait for approval, then go to the bother of finding the exact place to vote.  No wonder there's few votes, takes a bunch of very unlikely events to occur to make it possible to vote.

 

If Line6 was really interested in knowing if Pod Go users are interested, there could have been a simple poll somewhere; which features would you like most; a, b, c or d.  Or, would you like to have this? Yes/no.  Then people would vote, and you'd get an idea of what people want.  But this voting "if we get enough votes" thing is designed for user requests to be ignored. 

 

Anyway, maybe it's not as bad as I assume. Maybe ideascale works better than I'd wager.  But I've never bothered to check it out in the past.  Like most people, the bystander effect is real; why do I need to vote, I'm just 1 person, doesn't really matter, others will do it.   And yeah, certainly Line6 is aware of all of that.  I guess the idealists views ideascale as a good faith effort, and the realists view it for what it is.   (The previous L6 answers confirm this, see my 1st comment in this thread)

 

Quote

 

Idealism is what precedes experience; cynicism is what follows.

David T. Wolf

 

 

And yeah, to answer to the original quoted comment.  It's a very silly answer.  Minorities always complain.  There will ALWAYS be people complaining.  And it's not like you couldn't run out of DSP previously...   Anyway, it just sounds to me like another excuse not to do it.  

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