Send MIDI CC with footswitch / expression pedals

[kerryhall1]

Is it possible to connect a latching footswitch to expression pedal inputs 2 and 3, and use them to send MIDI CC when toggled?

 

I want to control a few aux pieces of gear, but I'm currently using all 8 snapshots.

[rd2rk]

You didn't specify (it helps), so since you're referencing Exp 2/3, I assume. that you have a Floor.

In order to have Helix send itself MIDI messages, you need to loop the MIDI IN/OUT ports.

Plugging your latching FS into EXP3 and assigning EXP3 to send MIDI, you can send messages, but they are inconsistent and send random values from 0-127.

So, if the value is between 0-63, it turns OFF (if it's already ON), and 64-127 does the opposite.

Sometimes nothing happens, sometimes the assigned effect flashes ON/OFF as though a momentary FS is being used.

Sometimes HX EDIT crashes and sometimes Helix locks up. Not good.

 

IOW - Helix does not like this.

Pony up the bucks for an external MIDI controller.

 

 

[kerryhall1]

I have a Helix rack, but with the foot controller which includes exp inputs 2 and 3.

 

I don't want to send midi inputs to itself, but rather, to a aux control board:

 

https://six4pix.net/product/relayswitcher/

 

(or similar product)

 

The result is random midi cc being sent?

[rd2rk]

52 minutes ago, kerryhall1 said:

I have a Helix rack, but with the foot controller which includes exp inputs 2 and 3.

 

I don't want to send midi inputs to itself, but rather, to a aux control board:

 

https://six4pix.net/product/relayswitcher/

 

(or similar product)

 

The result is random midi cc being sent?

 

Same applies.

 

Not random CC, random CC VALUES. IOW, if the device needs up to 8 different CCs each sending EITHER 127 (ON=64-127) or 0 (OFF=0-63) and you have no idea what VALUE will be sent when you press the switch.......

[kerryhall1]

Ah gotcha! Thank you!

 

Well if anyone knows of a good solution here, please let me know!

[rd2rk]

56 minutes ago, kerryhall1 said:

Ah gotcha! Thank you!

 

Well if anyone knows of a good solution here, please let me know!

 

Maybe if you gave us a better idea of what EXACTLY you're trying to accomplish?

 

A few auxiliary pieces of gear?

8 devices bypass-able by switch, and only by switch?

But can't use Snapshots because?

All of your Stomps are also in use?

Can't use a proper external MIDI controller because?

The device you referenced has 8 MIDI activated HW switches. Then you added "or similar". Have you looked at the VooDoo Labs PX-8 Plus Loop Switcher?

 

I'm trying to help, but I need more info....

[kerryhall1]

On 7/13/2021 at 3:39 PM, rd2rk said:

 

Maybe if you gave us a better idea of what EXACTLY you're trying to accomplish?

 

A few auxiliary pieces of gear?

8 devices bypass-able by switch, and only by switch?

But can't use Snapshots because?

All of your Stomps are also in use?

Can't use a proper external MIDI controller because?

The device you referenced has 8 MIDI activated HW switches. Then you added "or similar". Have you looked at the VooDoo Labs PX-8 Plus Loop Switcher?

 

I'm trying to help, but I need more info....

 

Ok, so basically I have some custom pedals that control certain aspects of my in ear monitoring setup. I'm trying to move those custom pedals off my pedalboard and into my rack, to allow for a wireless inear setup. (that is also rack based)

 

In order to then toggle those custom pedals on and off, I would like to control those with MIDI, via that MIDI relay board I linked.

 

I'm already using all 8 snapshots, so I was hoping I could connect footswitches into expression pedal inputs 2 and 3, and along with the toe switch input, control 3 different relays in my rack.

 

It doesn't sound like this is doable however, which is fair, because it sounds like it's a misuse of expression pedal inputs.

 

I might be able to trim my snapshot usage down to 4, then run snapshot / stomp mode, and have the rear four stomps send MIDI messages to control the relay board? Is that possible?

[rd2rk]

You could set 4 Stomps to send MIDI as you asked.

Do the custom pedals have actual ON/OFF switches that can be controlled externally (not just with their onboard switch)?

Are they properly buffered to prevent "pops" when they're externally switched?

 

[kerryhall1]

Please don't worry about the details of the pedals, I've already built and tested them. I just need a relay to trigger to do the actual switching.

 

Let's start with something simpler for now.

 

I have an Eventide Space. I have an expression pedal connected to EXP2. If the expression pedal is up, the Space is bypassed. If the expression pedal is down, the Space is not bypassed.

 

Is this possible?

 

And if not, instead of the expression pedal, use a stomp. (Which sounds like it's possible) How do I create a "MIDI stomp"?

 

[rd2rk]

The following is based on a quick look at the SPACE Manual.

There are a number of ways to BYPASS the SPACE. See pages 14, 41-43 and 46-47 to decide how you want to do it.

The critical thing is that using MIDI, the SPACE uses PC#s for BYPASS, not CC#s. Very non-standard.

Expression pedals send CC#s, so you can't use those.

Reading the above referenced manual sections leads me to think that all of the native methods are an over complicated PITA.

 

Here's the easy way - put the SPACE in it's own Helix FX Loop and assign a FS to the BYPASS function of of the FX Loop Block.

Done.

 

If the SPACE is always ON or OFF in certain Snapshots (you don't need on-the-fly control) just save the FX Loop Block ON or OFF in the Snapshots.

 

Next?

 

[kerryhall1]

I am using the Space for my vocals. It's separate from the Helix entirely.

 

I'm already using the seven cable method, so I don't think it's possible to include a vocal signal chain along with that, although if it is possible I would love to use it.

 

It's not possible for the control center to say "if this expression pedal is all the way down, send a PC?

 

No worries if this is not possible. I realize the fallback is to: (if I'm understanding correctly)

 

* Configure command center to send a PC if a certain FS on the Helix is pressed.

* Switch from snapshot mode to stomp mode (I use snapshot mode 99% of the time).

* Press the FS in stomp mode to send PC.

* Return to snapshot mode.

 

Is this correct / possible?

 

In addition, is it possible to set up the command center in such a way so that when I press the FS in stomp mode, it sends the PC and returns to snapshot mode at the same time? (Saves me a FS press)

Or as another option: 1 or 2 of the snapshots I've been using aren't super necessary.

 

Is it possible that I can carve out a single footswitch, say FS5, to use exclusively for toggling the Space on and off, while staying in snapshot mode the whole time?

 

Ie, if I look at the foot controller, I would see the usual "preset up/down", "mode" and "tap/tune", and the remaining buttons would be "snapshots 1-7", and the last would be something like "space toggle", pressing it wouldn't change to snapshot 8, but it would send that midi PC and that alone?

 

[rd2rk]

On 4/17/2022 at 8:21 PM, kerryhall1 said:

I am using the Space for my vocals. It's separate from the Helix entirely.

 

I'm already using the seven cable method, so I don't think it's possible to include a vocal signal chain along with that, although if it is possible I would love to use it.

 

MIDI and AUDIO are entirely independent of one another. Just connect a MIDI cable to the SPACE and use it the way you are currently with the native SPACE BYPASS method. See below.

 

On 4/17/2022 at 8:21 PM, kerryhall1 said:

* Configure command center to send a PC if a certain FS on the Helix is pressed.

* Switch from snapshot mode to stomp mode (I use snapshot mode 99% of the time).

* Press the FS in stomp mode to send PC.

* Return to snapshot mode.

In addition, is it possible to set up the command center in such a way so that when I press the FS in stomp mode, it sends the PC and returns to snapshot mode at the same time? (Saves me a FS press)

 

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

No. You can't automatically return from Stomp to Snapshot Mode.

 

Workaround: If you're in Snapshot Mode 99% of the time but you're not using all 8 Snapshots you can configure the Stomps to call Snapshots and use one Stomp to toggle the SPACE. Thus no need to switch Modes at all.

 

If you need access to more than the one Stomp for the SPACE (to bypass other Helix FX) you might also consider setting Stomps to call your most used Snapshots (the ones where you might want on-the-fly access to the SPACE toggle?) with the less used Snapshots accessible from Snapshot Mode. This leaves open the possibility of having more than one Stomp available.

 

BOTTOM LINE: You may have more needs than you have buttons, in which case you either prioritize or get an external MIDI Controller.

 

[kerryhall1]

Aha! This sounds like exactly what I need.

 

To clarify:

 

I can just stay in stomp mode the whole song, but FS2-5 and FS8-11 can be configured to recall snapshots? Then I can choose one or two of my least used snapshots (likely FS4 and 5) and configure stomps for those FS that *only* send a specific MIDI PC or CC?

 

Thank you!!

[rd2rk]

You got it!

[kerryhall1]

Thank you! So now I must ask...how do you recall a snapshot when you are in stomp mode?

[rd2rk]

I'm not sure what you're asking.

To call a Snapshot from Stomp Mode, in CommandCenter you assign the Snapshot to a FS.

 

[kerryhall1]

Thank you, this is exactly what I needed to know!