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SimbaTourTech

Multiple Helix Smart Controler Mirror mode

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Hi there !

I'm a touring backline tech and I strongly believe that the Line 6 ecosystem can take the front row since Kemper is starting to struggle and Fractal is both high priced and difficult to get here in France.

I have one difficult and very specific interrogation though ...

 

During tours, we use dual mirror controlers and/or automated switching from Ableton via MIDI Program changes.

 

The musician has one controler at his feet and I have another one at my space, backstage ... both boards mirrors each other of course.

I know that Fractal III family includes the mirror mode directly and I use the PoE hub method for the Kemper.

How would that work for the Helix products ?
I red the manual and nothing is said on that matter.

Thank you all !

(and damn, what a journey since my first PODs, which still work like a charm !)

 

Simba

 

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In an effort to answer your question, I looked in the AXEFXIII manual for "mirror", and found nothing related to your question. What is this called in Fractal land?

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I think it is possible I know what you might be talking about.  You want to connect two Helix units, using one as a master and the other as a slave?  Is that correct?  But controlling the master using the computer possibly?  

 

I know that is possible with some brands of MIDI looper/switcher controllers (like OneControl Crocodile Tail Loop, for example)  but I'm not sure if it is possible with Helix.

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One definition of PoE is "Power over Ethernet". The Kemper Remote connects via Ethernet Cable to the KPA, and provides both control and power (for the Remote). I think OP is talking about connecting two Remotes to a Hub (probably needs a special Hub due to the power thing), and connecting the Hub to the KPA. Fractal's FC controllers use an XLR cable, and likely would connect to a special XLR mixer. Ableton would send "Scene Specific" MIDI to the main unit in a Rack via USB, and specific on-the-fly changes could then be made via either the performer's floor controller or the backstage controller. The Rack would likely contain two "mirrored" KPA or AXEFX units with some sort of "fail-over" switching system.

 

If this is the case, it would seem possible to use Helix Rack units, which connect to the Helix Controller via Ethernet like the KPA, in the same way.

 

Or, I might still have no idea what he's talking about.

 

OP?

 

EDIT: link to KPA Forum discussion:

 

POE Network with 2 Profilers and 2 remotes - Profiler Remote - Questions and answers - Kemper Profiler Forum (kemper-amps.com)

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Fractal's FC controllers are using XLR cables but don't require anything special to work as mirrors.

You just have to daisy chain 2 (or more FCs) and set which one will mirror which.

 

That way, any switching done by the musician is mirrored on the board I have backstage and vice-versa.

 

For the Kemper the PoE hub is exactly that, a special hub that allows power to pass through.

The point is the same : allow 2 remotes (never tried more) to work as mirrors to control one KPA.

 

The musician does his stuff but I have the possibility to cover him if he wants to move out from behind his pedalboard.

In that regard it is mandatory to see what each-other does on the controler, hence the mirror mode.

 

I don't plan to use USB. We sometimes use MIDI program changes sent by a DAW (like Ableton or Pro Tools, Cubase ...) that is running during the show for backing vocals, video and/or lighting synchronization, etc ...

But this MIDI communication is done by XLR cables, not USB (the distance is the main reason).

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Guess what ?

The OP in the KPA forum you linked ... is me :-)

 

And for the record, you can get 2 Kemper remotes to work as mirrors to control 1 KPA but you can't set a complete network of 2 remotes and 2 KPAs.

 

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Note that we are talking about Helix remotes (smart controler) and Helix rack.

 

Unfortunately for now, the smart controler and the floor units (Helix Floor/ Helix LT) do not talk to each other.

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Helix doesn't have the special mirror function built in, but I wonder if:

 

a) A helix Rack and PoE Hub might be able to power two Helix Controls, and

b) The same function that allows having changes made on the Rack to be reflected on a connected Control would work to also reflect changes made from one Control to be reflected on the other also.

 

If so, it could work the same way as the KPA and AXE.

You should give L6 support a call, they're really helpful, and if nothing else, the tech might find this an interesting enough question that he'd ask one of the engineers.

I'd certainly be interested in the outcome, so do come back here and let us know what you find out!

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10 hours ago, SimbaTourTech said:

 

Note that we are talking about Helix remotes (smart controler) and Helix rack.

 

Unfortunately for now, the smart controler and the floor units (Helix Floor/ Helix LT) do not talk to each other.

 


It’s kind of ironic that you call the Helix Control a smart contolller… It actually is just a “dumb” controller. It’s just a remote, and for the Rack and the Control, it’s almost like Line 6 just physically separated then footswitches and scribble strips from the brains.

 

I don’t think it would ever be feasible to have multiple Controls run from one Rack based on what I know about how that connection works.

 

The one thing you could do is use a MIDI controller as the remote controller and then just have the player have the Control on stage. Any changes made from the MIDI controller would then be reflected on the Control. It’s just that the reverse wouldn’t be true. You also asked about MIDI automation, and, yes, that’s completely doable. I’ve seen a bunch of posts from people using that in their live setups with the Helix.

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