Helix not hitting front of amp transparently

[realize]

I am trying to use my Helix in front of my Supro dual tone as effects only and also in 4CM with my Mesa mkv. The signal seems to lose gain and doesn't hit the front of my Supro or mkv like plugged direct in. I've tried the input z options and line/signal settings on the outputs and sends. It never clears up. Anyone have this problem or a fix?

[rd2rk]

Supro -

GLOBAL SETTINGS>INS/OUTS

Input Pad = OFF

1/4" Outputs = INST

Volume Knob Controls = XLR (results in UNITY GAIN at 1/4" L/Mono Out>Supro Input)

 

PREFERENCES

Auto Impedance = First Enabled

 

ALL PRESETS

Input Block In-Z = AUTO

 

If you're still not getting a hot enough signal to the Supro, increase the Preset Output Block Level.

 

 

MkV - 

GLOBAL SETTINGS>INS/OUTS

Input Pad = OFF

1/4" Outputs = LINE

Send/Return = whichever works best

Volume Knob Controls = XLR (results in UNITY GAIN at 1/4" L/Mono Out>MkV FX Return)

 

PREFERENCES

Auto Impedance = First Enabled

 

ALL PRESETS

Input Block In-Z = AUTO

 

If you're still not getting a hot enough signal to the MkV Input, increase the FX Loop Block SEND Level.

 

 

If you're still having problems, look at the Gain Staging of your Presets.

Pay attention to the Output Meter - when the Output Block is selected it's monitoring the 1/4" Out.

When the FX Loop Block is selected it's monitoring the SEND.

 

 

[realize]

I'm getting good results now but what does this mean? Volume Knob Controls = XLR (results in UNITY GAIN at 1/4" L/Mono Out>Supro Input) .

 Which volume knob controls are you referring to?

 

 P.S. Thanks for the help, it is much appreciated.

[rd2rk]

20 hours ago, realize said:

I'm getting good results now but what does this mean? Volume Knob Controls = XLR (results in UNITY GAIN at 1/4" L/Mono Out>Supro Input) .

 Which volume knob controls are you referring to?

 

 P.S. Thanks for the help, it is much appreciated.

 

Global Settings>Ins/Outs Page 3 knob 3 assigns which Output is controlled by THE BIG KNOB. Leave THE BIG KNOB at MAX for consistent Output to amp. FOH, whatever. This way you never have to guess where that knob was at when you created the preset and, if sending to FOH, keeps the engineer happy.

 

EDIT: Assigning it to something OTHER than the Output in use disables it (disabled = UNITY GAIN) for that Output.

[Schmalle]

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

 THE BIG KNOB at MAX for best signal to noise ratio, and consistent Output to amp. FOH, whatever.

Not really. You get the best SNR right before the DACs start to distort. That depends on the patch levels and is not what you'd really want, because that signal is usually too hot for the input stage of the next device.

What you usually want in front of an amp is a signal of the same level that the instrument plugged straight into the amp provides  - which (given an empty patch with the impedance set to match the amp's) is done when Outputs = INST and VOLUME maxed / disengaged. This provides good SNR, good headroom and a neutral level.

[rd2rk]

The next 10 posts will be really smart people arguing all sorts of technical details on the order of "Not really because IF this THEN that".

 

Do you REALLY want to engage a newbie in a discussion of S/N ratio and bit rates of DAC converters?

 

The easiest thing to do is leave the BIG KNOB at Unity. Get your levels right within the preset.

 

If it sounds good and you've got too much signal at the amp input, turn down the Level at the Output Block.

 

Why confuse the guy with technical gobbledyg00k?

 

[Schmalle]

You also don't really wanna proclamate false things,

10 hours ago, rd2rk said:

The next 10 posts will be really smart people arguing all sorts of technical details on the order of "Not really because IF this THEN that".

 

Do you REALLY want to engage a newbie in a discussion of S/N ratio and bit rates of DAC converters?

 

The easiest thing to do is leave the BIG KNOB at Unity. Get your levels right within the preset.

 

If it sounds good and you've got too much signal at the amp input, turn down the Level at the Output Block.

 

Why confuse the guy with technical gobbledyg00k?

 

You state false things to a newbie. I correct those so that the newbie doesn't believe false things. I replied to you, not the OP. If SNR was irrelevant, why did you confuse the guy with it in the first place?

Otherwise you did a fine job replying to the OP - I didn't feel obligated to add anything of significance - until SNR was mentioned.

[rd2rk]

Nothing I said was false. The BIG KNOB is the last stage before the DAC. Turning it DOWN does something (@phil_m explained it elsewhere) to the bit rate that negatively affects the noise floor. He has stated, as have I and others, that it's mostly not audible, more a recording engineer's concern. If I can't hear it, it's technical gobbledyg00k.

 

What's more important is the consistency of the levels, both for consistent preset leveling and delivery to FOH.

 

Here's some confusing info:

 

18 hours ago, Schmalle said:

What you usually want in front of an amp is a signal of the same level that the instrument plugged straight into the amp provides  - which (given an empty patch with the impedance set to match the amp's) is done when Outputs = INST and VOLUME maxed / disengaged. This provides good SNR, good headroom and a neutral level.

 

 

That's why there's a MASSIVE pedal industry dedicated to creating BOOST and OVERDRIVE pedals, of which there are I don't even know how many in Helix.

 

Something can be TRUE, but still be irrelevant in a given context. TMI. By that definition, my mention of SNR was TMI.

I've edited my reply to reflect that.

 

Are we good?

 

 

[Schmalle]

On 7/21/2021 at 4:18 PM, rd2rk said:

Nothing I said was false. The BIG KNOB is the last stage before the DAC. Turning it DOWN does something (@phil_m explained it elsewhere) to the bit rate that negatively affects the noise floor. He has stated, as have I and others, that it's mostly not audible, more a recording engineer's concern. If I can't hear it, it's technical gobbledyg00k.

 

What's more important is the consistency of the levels, both for consistent preset leveling and delivery to FOH.

 

Here's some confusing info:

 

That's why there's a MASSIVE pedal industry dedicated to creating BOOST and OVERDRIVE pedals, of which there are I don't even know how many in Helix.

 

Something can be TRUE, but still be irrelevant in a given context. TMI. By that definition, my mention of SNR was TMI.

I've edited my reply to reflect that.

 

Are we good?

I think we are as we were - good - hopefully - and I probably read to much into your statement " THE BIG KNOB at MAX for best signal to noise ratio" to the point where I wouldn't mind being called pedantic.

So I'm guilty of providing TMI on top of TMI which is THE WORST INFORMATION.