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requietus666

helix floor vs stomp xl, noise floor and snr

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greetings,

should helix floor and stomp xl sound surgically identical with identical preset settings ?

I find that stomp xl has about 6dB higher noise floor (white noise) with the same settings than helix floor

faqs and specs mention the same dynamic range of 123dB and the same converters whatnot but the sound isn't identical. what am I missing ?

I though stomp xl could be a good light travel companion

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Do you have the input pad off on the Helix and the input set to line level on the XL? The outputs on both set to instrument level? How are you coming up with the 6dB measurement? If you’re comparing the levels from the dry USB inputs, I believe there is a difference there, as the Helix has a single mono guitar input, whereas the XL has stereo inputs.

 

The thing is even with a 6dB higher noise floor, that’s still better than any other guitar processor on the market.

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You should also mention where are you getting that noise, I mean which output.

 

I did my own measure with my Stomp, my Rack and my everyday audio interface; USB port; no difference at all in the reference between Stomp and Rack. Through the 1/4" Output, same - no difference. I even tried grabbing a freq response through a measurement mic and a pair of matched Yamaha HS5 (I was tuning up my studio room), and still, no difference between the Rack and Stomp. Visible difference with the other Audio Interface. Helix and Stomp they do produce exactly the same response curve, with basically the same ranges. The very little variations I could see, were just measurement artifacts due the mic position.


Be sure you are measuring at settings parity.

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noise floor difference could be what phil_m said, or even the tolerance difference between the master volume potentiometers (typically 2%-5%) if you used an interim setting (both at 12:00 would be interim)....You would have to measure them with a meter to set an identical interim position or run them full....But I am more curious about your comment "...but the sound is not identical." What isn't identical about it? Not much to go on from that.

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outputs don't matter I think, because the comparison is done via usb in daw

yes, pad off on helix floor input

my first instinct on stompxl was to set input lvl to inst, only this way I get the incoming guitar signal on the same level as on helix floor

and, with the level set to inst there is the white noise also introduced, with lvl set to line there is noticably less power

 

Ive had helix floor for several years now, so, when I played stomp xl with the exact preset (3.11 teemah+placater to bring waveform up) I noticed the noise floor right away

thanks for the advices, I think I went through all variants but couldnt bring the noise (anthrax joke here) down

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curious...I wonder if InputZ could affect this...It certainly would if it was input impedance was different...So if the Helix floor was 1M and stomp was 3M, there would be a bit more white noise...You can hear it when you change inputZ...If they are both auto, then I think they would be the same...Just something that came to mind...Also the global EQ...I am guessing you checked the global stuff, but thought I would mention it anyways. 

 

I am still curious as to what was different or was it just more noise with the same tone?

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yes, thanks, set to 1M ohm, global eq bypassed

it is the same noise floor difference Ive noticed with other interfaces. previously had saffire 14pro, and a jump to clarett was huge in terms of clarity, but the helix floor is just unreal, mile ahead. so, I had an impression stomp xl would deliver as good

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8 hours ago, requietus666 said:

yes, thanks, set to 1M ohm, global eq bypassed

it is the same noise floor difference Ive noticed with other interfaces. previously had saffire 14pro, and a jump to clarett was huge in terms of clarity, but the helix floor is just unreal, mile ahead. so, I had an impression stomp xl would deliver as good

...Maybe it's one of the models themselves...I mean, the noise floor will never be 123 db unless the models are disabled as they do add noise...

 

Have you tried comparing a new patch with no models on both devices?...I would think if the noise floor(s) goes to equal, then you may have spotted a model difference...maybe the teemah has a bit more noise in the stomp...or the placater...vs the Helix. I could see that...the firmware is different between the devices providing a margin for something like this occur...Might be worth narrowing down and opening a service ticket if that is the deal...

 

 

 

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On 7/29/2021 at 1:39 PM, requietus666 said:

should helix floor and stomp xl sound surgically identical with identical preset settings


Hi,

 

Well, technically they should, just like the hardware Helix and the Helix Native plug-in should sound identical, but that keeps on being debated, i.e. different audio interfaces may cause issues.

 

Essentially, what you have here is the firmware, that should theoretically be the same thing for each device. The hardware contains the same DSP chips, the difference being that the smaller hardware units have a single chip and the larger boxes contain two. Other than that they should sound exactly the same through the same equipment. If there are obvious, and proven shifts in what you’re hearing, then something must be wrong somewhere down the line. Raise a ticket with Customer Support.

 

Just my 2 cents observation.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

 

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I ran single frequency sine wave file into both units, and it shows that levels are matched when helix floor input pad is off and stomp xl input level is inst, and with these settings the noise comes

 

I can't find any info which converters are used in stomp xl, helix lt ad is CS5368, can someone confirm these ?

 

then there is the ac adapter factor, one is built in the other is external, but that maybe is superstition territory already

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4 hours ago, requietus666 said:

I ran single frequency sine wave file into both units, and it shows that levels are matched when helix floor input pad is off and stomp xl input level is inst, and with these settings the noise comes


When you ran the sine wave did you also check the matched signals with a null test?
 

Flipping the phase on one signal should really expose any differences between the units?

 

Sorry, I don’t have any tech info on what DACs are used in the HX Stomp XL

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

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Sorry for not following up for so long. I ended up returning HX Stomp XL, I couldn't find any evidence of converters being identical to those of Helix Floor. I'm pretty confident it had nothing to do with the null test also. Here's attached noise floors. Those peaks are string noise, something of guitar origin, nothing of noise floor impact anyways. Thanks for ideas anyhow, this unit didn't do (didnt fill the role) what I expected.

image.png.fc9801af450a4ebdd78e81ad490c99aa.png

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