Helix squealing and sound like garbage. HELP!!!

[monnkey2]

Hi all. I just bought a new helix and am trying to get it up and running with my amp, but I'm getting a high pitched squeal and the sound is buzzy and cuts out really early like there's a noise gate on (but there's not).

This is how I have it connected:

guitar to "guitar in"

"send 1" to front of amp

"return 1" from the line out of my attenuator.

 

I've been running the line out from my attenuator directly into my audio interface with no issues. I don't know why the Helix doesn't seem to like it.

 

Also, if I connect the line out from my attenuator directly into the "guitar in" input it sounds fine, but then I can only use the helix for post amp effects. I'd like to be able to use effects from the Helix both before and after my amp.

 

Please help!!!!

[codamedia]

Make sure the send/return 1 is set to "instrument level" in the global settings. If it is set to line, the front end of your amp will be seeing a massive boost in signal. 

[monnkey2]

3 hours ago, codamedia said:

Make sure the send/return 1 is set to "instrument level" in the global settings. If it is set to line, the front end of your amp will be seeing a massive boost in signal. 

 

Thanks, I've already got it set to instrument. I tried using send 1 and return 3 (with return 3 set to line and to instrument just to check) and that didn't fix it either.

[rd2rk]

Your signal chain is:

 

Guitar>Helix Guitar In>Helix FX>Helix FX Send 1> Amp Input>Amp Speaker Out>Attenuator>Helix Return 1>???

                                                                                                                                                                  >Speaker

 

What is the make and model of your amp and attenuator?

[monnkey2]

41 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

Your signal chain is:

 

Guitar>Helix Guitar In>Helix FX>Helix FX Send 1> Amp Input>Amp Speaker Out>Attenuator>Helix Return 1>???

                                                                                                                                                                  >Speaker

 

What is the make and model of your amp and attenuator?

 

You have the signal chain correct except it's a Helix Floor not a Helix FX.

 

I'm using the unbalanced line out from a Rivera Rock Crusher

 

Thanks!

[rd2rk]

Helix FX refers to the Helix FX in your preset.

And where does the signal go AFTER it returns to Helix from the attenuator?

Also, Attach a copy of your preset (not a screenshot) so I can see what's happening.

[monnkey2]

15 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

Helix FX refers to the Helix FX in your preset.

And where does the signal go AFTER it returns to Helix from the attenuator?

Also, Attach a copy of your preset (not a screenshot) so I can see what's happening.

 

After the attenuator I send it through a cab in the Helix and then out the S/PDIF and into my interface. I've attached the preset I'm using. Thanks!

Preset Test.hls

[rd2rk]

You attached a setlist. Presets are .hlx

[monnkey2]

7 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

You attached a setlist. Presets are .hlx

 

Sorry, it's my first day with the Helix :)  Hopefully this one works

Test Preset.hlx

[codamedia]

10 hours ago, monnkey2 said:

Also, if I connect the line out from my attenuator directly into the "guitar in" input it sounds fine,

 

If this is working.... then the proper settings for a RETURN should be "Instrument Level"....  which you do say you have done. 

 

IMO, the guitar into the amp works, but the Helix send to the amp is causing the problem. This would suggest to me that the Helix (in particular the effects prior to the send) is pushing way to much level to the input of the amp.  Right now we know how you have everything hooked up, but we have no idea what you are running for effects and whether or not the gain structure is appropriate. 

 

Can you share your preset with us... we might see something you are overlooking. 

 

EDIT TO ADD: I see you posted the preset while I was typing... thanks!

 

[codamedia]

10 minutes ago, monnkey2 said:

 

Sorry, it's my first day with the Helix :)  Hopefully this one works

Test Preset.hlx 7.85 kB · 0 downloads

 

Really... you are just running the FX Loop (send/return... both on instrument level) then into a CAB after the return? That should be a very neutral setup. 

 

Leave that exact preset in place.... and try this. (let us know the results)

• Plug the guitar straight into the AMP 
• Keep the attenuator to the Helix return in place... 
  • Does it work? 
• Now plug the guitar into the Helix
• The Helix SEND into the Amp input
• Keep the attenuator to the Helix return in place... 
  • What happens now? 

 

 

[codamedia]

11 minutes ago, monnkey2 said:

Sorry, it's my first day with the Helix :)

 

I have to say.. .your setup is very "high risk" for an opening day :) 

[monnkey2]

23 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

If this is working.... then the proper settings for a RETURN should be "Instrument Level"....  which you do say you have done. 

 

IMO, the guitar into the amp works, but the Helix send to the amp is causing the problem. This would suggest to me that the Helix (in particular the effects prior to the send) is pushing way to much level to the input of the amp.  Right now we know how you have everything hooked up, but we have no idea what you are running for effects and whether or not the gain structure is appropriate. 

 

Can you share your preset with us... we might see something you are overlooking. 

 

EDIT TO ADD: I see you posted the preset while I was typing... thanks!

 

 

Yes, I do have the loop set to "instrument level." Also, I don't think the level hitting the front of the amp is the problem, because I'm able to set the Helix up to go into the front of the amp just fine. It works either going in front, or after the amp. I'm just not able to do both without getting the terrible squealing and distorted sound. I'm wondering if I have a ground loop problem going on in the FX Loop, but when I push the ground loop button on the back of the Helix nothing changes. Thanks for all the help! I really appreciate it!

[monnkey2]

17 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

Really... you are just running the FX Loop (send/return... both on instrument level) then into a CAB after the return? That should be a very neutral setup. 

 

Leave that exact preset in place.... and try this. (let us know the results)

• Plug the guitar straight into the AMP 
• Keep the attenuator to the Helix return in place... 
  • Does it work? 
• Now plug the guitar into the Helix
• The Helix SEND into the Amp input
• Keep the attenuator to the Helix return in place... 
  • What happens now? 

 

 

 

I've done this. Going straight into the amp with the attenuator in the return it works great.  Then when plug the guitar into the Helix and send to the amp input like you suggested I get a high pitch squealing and a distorted nasty tone.  It also works great if I go into the "guitar in" on the Helix, then from "send 1" to the amp input, but instead of returning the attenuator to the helix I plug directly into my interface. I can do either the Helix in front OR after the amp just fine, but I can't do both in front AND after without the squealing and distortion

[rd2rk]

Are you getting the noise through the amp, interface or both?

What happens if you unplug the Helix USB cable?

How are you setting the output level on the Rock Crusher?

[codamedia]

55 minutes ago, monnkey2 said:

I can do either the Helix in front OR after the amp just fine, but I can't do both in front AND after without the squealing and distortion

 

Ok, you have certainly done a fair bit of tests.... There is just a few more things I can suggest you try....

• Try a different Loop on the Helix. EG: Try loop 2, or loop 3, etc.... (this would expose a faulty loop)
• If you get the same result on all the loops, try lowing the SEND level on the Helix, and or the RETURN level. Each loop block has a level for both the send and return - don't be afraid to lower them if you have to.

[monnkey2]

24 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

Ok, you have certainly done a fair bit of tests.... There is just a few more things I can suggest you try....

• Try a different Loop on the Helix. EG: Try loop 2, or loop 3, etc.... (this would expose a faulty loop)
• If you get the same result on all the loops, try lowing the SEND level on the Helix, and or the RETURN level. Each loop block has a level for both the send and return - don't be afraid to lower them if you have to.

 

I've already tried all the loops and I get the same issue.

I haven't tried lowering the level on the SEND or RETURN yet, but I figured that wouldn't be the problem since I'm getting green level indications and not red. I'll give this a shot just in case, but unfortunately it'll have to wait until later tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for all of help!

[monnkey2]

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

Are you getting the noise through the amp, interface or both?

What happens if you unplug the Helix USB cable?

How are you setting the output level on the Rock Crusher?

 

I think the noise is coming from the amp. I can hear a faint squealing coming from the amp even without a speaker cab attached. I do hear it through my monitors and headphones through the interface, but I think that it's just picking up the noise from the amp.

[rd2rk]

1 minute ago, monnkey2 said:

 

I think the noise is coming from the amp. I can hear a faint squealing coming from the amp even without a speaker cab attached. I do hear it through my monitors and headphones through the interface, but I think that it's just picking up the noise from the amp.

 

And if you unplug the Helix USB cable?

[monnkey2]

5 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

• If you get the same result on all the loops, try lowing the SEND level on the Helix, and or the RETURN level. Each loop block has a level for both the send and return - don't be afraid to lower them if you have to.

 

4 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

And if you unplug the Helix USB cable?

 

I tried unplugging the Helix USB cable, and it didn't stop the squealing and distortion.

I also tried lowering the levels of the SEND and RETURN. That didn't fix it either

[rd2rk]

Can you record this noise? 'cause I gotta say, we've been through most everything, and I'm baffled.

Maybe the noise itself can tell us something.

[codamedia]

Try this setup ... see if it helps. 

If noise is being introduced by unbalanced lines, this should help with that. 

1. Path A (upper path)
   • Set input block distinctly to guitar in (not multi)
   • Set the output block to SEND 1
2. Path B (lower path)
   • Set input as mic (XLR)   (make sure Phantom Power is turned off in the global settings)
   • insert your CAB MODEL on this path
   • Set Output as required

Now, connect SEND 1 to the input of the amp and use the BALANCED output of your attenuator to feed the MIC input of the Helix. 

NOTE: Watch the input level at the XLR on the Helix, you may need to trim (lower) the XLR input on the Helix quite a bit. I'd start at it's lowest level and if it peaks there, stop the experiment. Raise the level as required. 

 

.... and as @rd2rk has asked, can you share an audio example of the noise? 

[monnkey2]

20 hours ago, rd2rk said:

Can you record this noise? 'cause I gotta say, we've been through most everything, and I'm baffled.

Maybe the noise itself can tell us something.

 

So I recorded a few sound samples.

• The first one is just of the squealing with the cab block bypassed. When the cab is turned on the squealing gets filtered out in my interface. I still can hear the squealing physically coming from the amp itself though.
• The second is the Helix before the amp AND after the attenuator
• The third is an example of the Helix ONLY after the attenuator. It sounds fine. It's a little darker sounding than I'm used to. That could be because of the Helix cab block that I'm not used to using, or cable capacitance, but either way I'm not experiencing the squeal and distortion when hooked up this way.

Squeal (No Cab).mp3 Helix Before Amp AND After Attenuator.mp3 Helix After Attenuator.mp3

[rd2rk]

I don't hear any squeal on the recordings that you'e playing on, only on the "Helix Before Amp AND After Attenuator".

How, exactly, was that recording made? Mic? USB? Other?

[monnkey2]

3 hours ago, rd2rk said:

I don't hear any squeal on the recordings that you'e playing on, only on the "Helix Before Amp AND After Attenuator".

How, exactly, was that recording made? Mic? USB? Other?

 

Right! I was showing how it squeals and distorts when I use the Helix before the amp and after the attenuator, but not when I only put the Helix after the attenuator. Also, the first recording was just the squeal because I had the cab block on the Helix bypassed.  When the cab block is on it filters out the squeal through my interface. Although I can still hear the squeal in my room because it's coming from the amp. I recorded it via the S/PDIF out of the Helix and into my interface.

[rd2rk]

On 8/9/2021 at 4:12 PM, monnkey2 said:

I think the noise is coming from the amp. I can hear a faint squealing coming from the amp even without a speaker cab attached. I do hear it through my monitors and headphones through the interface, but I think that it's just picking up the noise from the amp.

 

You never said what make and model the amp is.  You've introduced an AI without any info on that either.

 

BUT...never mind any of that. 

 

You're hearing the squealing through the amp, WITHOUT A SPEAKER CAB???

I'd say that's a red flag right there!

 

I don't have an attenuator to test, but putting my Egnater's preamp in the FX Loop of your preset, and sending the S/PDIF to my Scarlett AI, I have no squeal, no distortion.

 

The irrefutable conclusion is that you have a problem with your attenuator and/or your amp.

You/we have run every possible test, the problem is NOT in the Helix.

My money is on the attenuator. That device has lots of switches and options. Either something is not configured correctly, or the RC is defective.

I would contact Rivera with this problem and see what they say.

 

Here's a thread that may be of help:

 

Rivera Rockcrusher | My Les Paul Forum

 

Also, if you haven't already RTM, here's a link:

 

rockcrushermamanual.pdf (dropbox.com)

 

EDIT: I didn't see it mentioned, though I may have missed it. Make sure that EVERYTHING connected in any way with your rig is on the same power source, that there are no fluorescents, rheostats or major appliances on that circuit, that there are no routers/wireless gadgets within 10 feet, and that you're using a power strip with EMI/RFI filtering.

 

 

[codamedia]

I know you are fixated that the problem only happens when you connect the "FX Loop" but I think that is exposing the problem, not creating it. That squeal is horrible, but (IMO) is sound like digital interference, not analog.

 

8 hours ago, monnkey2 said:

I recorded it via the S/PDIF out of the Helix and into my interface.

 

8 hours ago, monnkey2 said:

When the cab block is on it filters out the squeal through my interface. Although I can still hear the squeal in my room because it's coming from the amp.

 

I missed the mention of S/PDIF earlier in the thread. Without changing anything else.... just remove the S/PDIF cable from the Helix and see if the noise STOPS coming through your AMP.  If it stops, then the REAL problem is the S/PDIF connection. 

[monnkey2]

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It turns out I had a ground loop problem between the Helix FX Loop, my amp, and my attenuator. I bought at Rocktron Buzz Kill AC Hum Exterminator, threw it in the loop and presto! Problem solved.

 

Thanks so much to codamedia and rd2rk for spending so much time and effort helping me! You guys are awesome! You went out of your way to help a total stranger. The world is a better place because of people like you. Seriously, thank you!

[rd2rk]

Ground loops - the bane of musicians everywhere! Glad you figured it out.