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Help with a fix? Sound techs - signal to hot!!


GrampaBob
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Hi.  Now that life is back to normal I can use my Helix for live gigs but I have an issue.  2 of 3 live gigs so far, the sound techs have told me the signal is way to hot but 3rd gig sound tech made no such comment and I proceeded with my normal settings.  I don't know what mixers the sound techs use as I just go into their snakes setup for the band.  I'm confused why all 3 didn't ask me to fix the signal.  I "fixed" the signal by turning the large dial back to 11pm and had no choice but to crank my PC+ to MAX volume and I could hardly hear it if it wasn't for monitors.

For gigs I use a Helix into PC+ 112 via AES cable.  They take the signal from the powercab+ XLS output.  I have the large dial normally at 3pm and the PC+ volume anywhere from 9pm to noon depending if I'm at practice with the band or not (not going thru a PA).

 

 

most of my presets are all at 0 db normal untouched levels and I would say they sound awesome and normal volume.

guitar in pad - off

1/4 out - line

XLR - line (hrmm i thought I had this on MIC now that I'm looking  (i find new patches change a few global settings every time, such as preset mode switch option, reverts to setup I dont use)

big volume knob - multi

digital level out - 0 db

powercab plus - all factory default (*update* hrmm this may not have been the case here, direct out was set to LINE not MIC)

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Thank you

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An amateur sound tech used to receiving a mic level signal might not know how to deal with a line level signal from the PC+. And/Or, they may not have been familiar with the board.

However, the default for the XLR outs on the PC+ is Mic, so check the PC+ System settings to be sure that the Direct Out Level hasn't been changed.

There's no way, if the level indicator on the PC+ isn't constantly spiking into the red, that the Direct Out signal from the PC+ is going to be too hot if set to mic.

Unless you've upped the output levels on the PC+? Defaults are FLAT = 0db;SPEAKER = -15db;USER IR = -18db.

 

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8 hours ago, rd2rk said:

An amateur sound tech used to receiving a mic level signal might not know how to deal with a line level signal from the PC+. And/Or, they may not have been familiar with the board.

However, the default for the XLR outs on the PC+ is Mic, so check the PC+ System settings to be sure that the Direct Out Level hasn't been changed.

There's no way, if the level indicator on the PC+ isn't constantly spiking into the red, that the Direct Out signal from the PC+ is going to be too hot if set to mic.

Unless you've upped the output levels on the PC+? Defaults are FLAT = 0db;SPEAKER = -15db;USER IR = -18db.

 

 

Ah yes thanks.  Now that went back thru the PC+ 112 menus (and I feel ashamed because I already did this once but obviously blew right past this on first pass) the direct out was set to LINE not MIC.  TO be honest I have no idea why both my helix and PC+ were set to XLR as LINE instead of MIC, because my brain has always agreed that XLR should always be on MIC going to a mixer (and because techs go XLR to a snake as normal) and have viewed setup videos on youtube from J Sadites and S Staracci for guidance.  Baffled lol.
 

My PC+ direct out levels are all at 0.0 db.


I bet this will work now and this just demonstrates, double check settings periodically.

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Your direct out levels should be set at FLAT = 0db;SPEAKER = -15db;USER IR = -18db.

If you're using the L6 Link (as you should be to prevent unnecessary AD/DA conversions and minimize S/N), you're getting the correct Input Level.

If you're using XLRs, from the manual:

 

9. Combo Input Jack - Connect the line level output of your amp
modeler to this balanced 1/4" TRS/XLR input (e.g., Line 6 Helix
or POD device, etc.). Helix should be set to Line Level. POD HD
should be set to +4dB. "Amp-in-a-box" type preamp pedals may
require additional boosting to achieve the appropriate line level for
these inputs (maximum +13dBu).

 

 

The Direct Out Line Level selector on the PC+ System Tab should look like an O, NOT a solid dot.

 

The best way to ensure that you've got all the PC+ defaults selected is to just do a Factory Reset from the System button on the physical control panel.

You won't lose any IRs, but you should export and afterwards re-import any custom presets.

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50 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

Your direct out levels should be set at FLAT = 0db;SPEAKER = -15db;USER IR = -18db.

If you're using the L6 Link (as you should be to prevent unnecessary AD/DA conversions and minimize S/N), you're getting the correct Input Level.

If you're using XLRs, from the manual:

 

9. Combo Input Jack - Connect the line level output of your amp
modeler to this balanced 1/4" TRS/XLR input (e.g., Line 6 Helix
or POD device, etc.). Helix should be set to Line Level. POD HD
should be set to +4dB. "Amp-in-a-box" type preamp pedals may
require additional boosting to achieve the appropriate line level for
these inputs (maximum +13dBu).

 

 

The Direct Out Line Level selector on the PC+ System Tab should look like an O, NOT a solid dot.

 

The best way to ensure that you've got all the PC+ defaults selected is to just do a Factory Reset from the System button on the physical control panel.

You won't lose any IRs, but you should export and afterwards re-import any custom presets.

 

Ok I am following a bit more now.  I have installed the powercab edit software (I wasn't following on system tab mentions previously).  I did a factory reset on the PC+ itself.  I am using the AES cable for connection, not XLS.  Yes the direct out radio button is selected to mic, not line (thanks)

I use FLAT for everything so it was/now at 0.0 db like you mentioned.  I'm not sure if FLAT is the best choice but I haven't tried anything else.

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The PC Edit SW displays the settings for the selected PC preset. If you're on the FLAT STEREO preset, the FLAT/SPEAKER/USER IR tabs SHOULD show the settings I referred to.

What FW are you on? The latest is v2.00.1. It'll be at the bottom of the SYSTEM Tab.

If, on the POWERCAB tab in HX EDIT, you've changed the levels, that will be reflected on the PC+ and in the PC Edit display.

 

The reason for the settings I mentioned is that IRs are usually intended to be used at -18db. If you load an IR in the Helix, that's the level you'll see.

This is to allow for the addition in the signal chain of amps and FX, to keep the overall output below 0db, which is where digital distortion starts to kick in.

The same thing happens when you take USB into a DAW, the Input Level on the track will be around -18db.

Helix Cabs are different, they'll show 0db, but the actual output level is equivalent to -18db for normal IRs.

If you scroll the PC+ presets and observe the SPEAKER tab, you'll see that the Output Levels vary. This is so that the different SPEAKER/MIC combinations output at the same audible level through the PC+ speakers.

USER IRs are the same on the PC+ as on Helix, -18db.

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I have FW 2.00.1 yes.  Yes I can see the output levels change as I'm turning the knob while watching the software on speaker tab.  The only thing is when i flip thru the flat-speaker-ir tabs, that lower window doesnt change.  The low cut, high cut, level are all off-off-0.0 after the reset.

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Sorry, I explained that poorly.

The Flat Output level is at 0db because when you load an IR in a Helix Preset, it's already at -18db, and that's reflected in the IR Block.

However, the USER IR Output Level should be at -18db because the IR is on the Powercab and that's what it reflects, and the SPEAKER output should be at -15db because that balances the Speaker output against the IR/User IR levels. At least, I think that's the logic. That's the way it seems on my PC212+.

Unless there's something different about the PC112+. I'm reporting what happens with my PC212+, and I'm assuming that it should be the same.

Maybe take this question to the Powercab thread, put "PC112+ Flat/Speaker/User IR Levels" in the thread title, and ask there.

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