Boydie76 Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 Hi all I have been playing for the last few years with my Helix floor going into the loop return of a Blackstar Series One 45w combo with 2 x 12 Celestion Vintage 30 speakers (with some presets without Helix cab sims and some with if it sounds better) I had one rehearsal with the Powecab 212 to prepare for a gig this weekend so activated cab sims on all presets and had the intention of using FRFR via the L6 Link from the Helix Floor However, I found this a little “dark” and muddy on all presets - and was surprised (and a bit disappointed) that the global EQ on the Helix did not affect the sound via L6 Link :-( LF Raw mode seemed to give the best sound - even with the cab sims enabled on the Helix. It was brighter, which was surprising as I thought LF RAW disengaged the tweeter and FRFR has it turned on??) So I rebalanced my presets to get the input LEDs into the yellow, which meant the PC212 was turned up halfway to cut through with the band using this approach, and I have to say it sounded AWESOME! So I am very happy to gig with this setup for now - and then revisit the FRFR thing when I have more time between gigs My questions are... With this setup is the LF RAW mode pushing out stereo? My presets are balanced at different volumes for rhythm, lead etc. If I run an XLR from the out of the PC 212 to the PA will the signal be be the LF RAW sound (presumably with a mic sim applied?) and will it increase and decrease in volume with the different output levels of the different presets /snapshots I noticed everything sounded better with the amp tilted back on the legs - do most people do this when playing live? is there anything else I need to know before my first gig?? Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 19 hours ago, Boydie76 said: However, I found this a little “dark” and muddy on all presets - and was surprised (and a bit disappointed) that the global EQ on the Helix did not affect the sound via L6 Link :-( The world of IRs (including Helix Cab sims) requires much searching for the proper IR/cab sim for the best sound. The sound you hear from the PC212+ will never be the same as what you hear from FOH. Different playback systems sound different. Using the Helix cabs, you can control that (somewhat) using different mics/distances and Hi/Lo cuts at the cab block. Helix cabs tend to be darker than IRs, but not always. Choosing the best IR for the preset is the tricky part. No simple solution, just lots of experimentation. FWIW - after trying many brands of IRs, I've found the IRs from York Audio to be excellent. YMMV. 19 hours ago, Boydie76 said: LF Raw mode seemed to give the best sound - even with the cab sims enabled on the Helix. It was brighter, which was surprising as I thought LF RAW disengaged the tweeter and FRFR has it turned on??) The FRFR modes affect only the sound you hear from the PC212+, since they affect whether or not the HF driver is on. You can't hear that through the PC212+ XLRs. 19 hours ago, Boydie76 said: With this setup is the LF RAW mode pushing out stereo? If the signal from Helix is stereo, yes. Helix cab/IR blocks are MONO, unless you're using the DUAL CAB. Any MONO Block placed after a stereo effect (or the DUAL CAB) collapses the signal to MONO. The FRFR mode has no affect on whether the signal is stereo, only whether or not the HF driver is on or off. 19 hours ago, Boydie76 said: If I run an XLR from the out of the PC 212 to the PA will the signal be be the LF RAW sound (presumably with a mic sim applied?) and will it increase and decrease in volume with the different output levels of the different presets /snapshots In FRFR mode, using the cab/IR blocks on Helix, the signal level to the PC212+ XLRs is the signal level from Helix. The Output Knob on the PC212+ affects only the volume from the physical PC212+, NOT the XLRs. Whatever level is hitting the PC212+ input is the level at the XLRs. 19 hours ago, Boydie76 said: I noticed everything sounded better with the amp tilted back on the legs - do most people do this when playing live? Yes, as it reduces the bass coupling effect of the PC212+ speaker and the floor. It'll sound even better with the entire cab on a stand. When you use PC212+ speaker emulations (no Helix cab or IR), the signal you hear on stage from the PC212+ is the actual speaker. The signal from the XLRs is an emulation of the the speaker emulation, plus an emulation of a mic on that speaker. VERY different animals. If you use IRs loaded on the PC212+ (vs cab/IR blocks on Helix), the level to the XLRs is louder even using the same IRs. That means that your stage level will be louder (control that with the PC212+ volume knob), but more importantly, the level from the XLRs will be hotter. If FOH is competent, he'll adjust for that with his Channel input level, but if you're using a mix of IRs on Helix and IRs on PC212+, this will drive him crazy. Since all you hear is stage level, you can't compensate for that on the fly. Best practice IMO - use one configuration on all of your presets. If you want to be able to switch between PC212+ and your amp, use IRs on the PC212+. Test your presets at performance level with the rest of the band. They may find that annoying, but it's part of the process. Off to work now. If I think of anything else, or you have further questions, I'll come back later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie76 Posted October 2, 2021 Author Share Posted October 2, 2021 Thank you sooooooo much @rd2rk Your timing couldn't have been better - I am at the gig setting for sound check as I am typing so this all REALLY useful info I will report back after the gig...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie76 Posted October 3, 2021 Author Share Posted October 3, 2021 Sooo - first gig down and I am VERY happy with the Powercab 212 It is plenty loud enough for a pub gig and it sounded great I still need to tweak a few preset/snapshot volume levels but all good in LF RAW mode The next challenge is to build a suite of presets to use with the FRFR mode.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 Rock On! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie76 Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 Another post to say a big thanks to @rd2rk Had a go at tweaking my presets for use in FRFR mode What a fantastic experience - had to mainly increase volumes of presets compared to LF RAW mode and some slight EQ / affect adjustments (mainly reducing mix levels of reverbs and delays) - and then just WOW I got some AMAZING sounds and surprisingly the feel was much better than expected as it wasn't technically the "amp in the room" setup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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