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MikeMcK

Anyone using the 12-string effect?

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 I just got my LT last week and this week (Thurs., Fri., Sat.) will be my first gigs with them. One thing I got excited about was the built-in 12-string effect... I use a Mosaic a lot (and still will on band gigs; the Helix is just for duo and trio gigs).

 

When I set up a couple of patches, the first thing I noticed is that it must use a lot of CPU... as soon as I select it in HX Edit, a lot of FX names go gray... is that your experience too or am I missing something and doing something wrong? Also, and in IMHO, I think the Mosaic might sound a bit better, and I spent some time tweaking the effect. 

 

The most obvious answer is going to be, "get a Variax". I have one (gigged it for a couple of years) but prefer to use my regular guitars. So have any of you been using the 12-string effect on gigs and been happy with it? Any tips or tricks I should know about?

 

One more piece of info that may be important, I don't know... I'm hoping to switch between electric and acoustic, using the Helix for both (I set up a couple of presets using a 3Sigma IR), and would love to get a decent acoustic 12-string sound on a couple of these gigs.

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It DOES use a ton of CPU (as do all the poly pitch shift effects). That's why I still use my Mosaic when I want this effect.

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I find the pitch shifting effects on Helix to be the ones most in need of upgrading.  In my view they're only good in a pinch. They all seem to have that very artificial sound common to a number of the EHX pedals that use POG technology.  They also seem to share that same EHX bugginess where the tracking becomes confused if you don't stick to major and minor chord voicings.  Add 9s and minor 9ths are good examples of chords that can easily confuse the tracking.  The Mosaic is a bit better than Helix (or POG) at avoiding those cacophonies and it also has slightly less of the artificial flavour but it still needs more development in my view, as does Helix.  That said, I think you should probably keep using your Mosaic for now.  It's probably your best bet until something better comes out or if Line 6 decides to improve their pitch shifters to make them sound less like a synth.  I'm not sure what the answer is but I don't think the current generation of frequency oscillators are cutting it just yet.

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I've used it quite a bit with an acoustic guitar and it sounds pretty good.  However, if you want something unique, pair the 12 string effect with the polycapo up 12 frets for a surprisingly good mandolin sound.

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One of the important aspects to a 12-string emulation is to delay the octave strings by about 20-25 ms. That's about how long it takes the pick to go past the fundamental string and hit the octave. I run the poly block in parallel, processed sound only +12 semitones, in parallel with the dry guitar and add delay and processing to the octave-higher sound.

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9 hours ago, Anderton said:

One of the important aspects to a 12-string emulation is to delay the octave strings by about 20-25 ms. That's about how long it takes the pick to go past the fundamental string and hit the octave. I run the poly block in parallel, processed sound only +12 semitones, in parallel with the dry guitar and add delay and processing to the octave-higher sound.

Interesting...I'll have to try this....makes sense

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10 hours ago, Anderton said:

One of the important aspects to a 12-string emulation is to delay the octave strings by about 20-25 ms. That's about how long it takes the pick to go past the fundamental string and hit the octave. I run the poly block in parallel, processed sound only +12 semitones, in parallel with the dry guitar and add delay and processing to the octave-higher sound.

 

Wow!  Any chance you can make a simple tone and upload it to the download section here?  I would love to try that!

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2 hours ago, talonmm said:

I would love to try that!


Well he has said how he does it - why not give it a try for yourself?

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I appreciate the interest, the preset is attached. Note that unlike a physical 12-string, the upper two strings are an octave higher as well. I consider this a feature, not a bug :)  It gives a sort of "12-string-meets-Nashville-tuning" sound. (FWIW, this is one of the presets that's included in my upcoming Helix eBook.)

 

Hope ya like it! 

Gourmet12-String.hlx

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This is only indirectly related to the subject of the original post.   It is related .... but only indirectly.

When the acoustic simulator was introduced on Helix I gave it a try and was underwhelmed.  I watched some videos on it.  I think one of them might have been by Sadites.  At any rate I kind of gave up on it but after pondering on some of the ideas in this thread I experimented with a few things and made some improvements.  It's still not a great acoustic tone but it's better than I was getting before.  I made a split in the path such that the unmolested signal from the electric guitar goes straight into path B.  The acoustic sim still sits on path A and I reduced the shimmer to zero. The body is about 3 and top is about 5 and I boosted it by about 2db.  On path B, I added the 12-string block and adjusted it to a very low blend level.  It's not there to simulate a 12-string.  It's just there to give more liveliness and jangle to the tone and the blend is low in an attempt to reduce the impact of the unnatural synth kinds of sounds pitch shifters produce because I am not using any distortion to cover up that synthy sound.  After the 12-string block I 100% delayed path B by 9ms with zero repeats.  Adding any repeats at all just turned it to mush and introduced some weird artifacts.  After the 12-string block and the delay I also added to path B a chorus and a 10-band EQ.  So half of my "acoustic" sound is straight from the simulator and dry, running through an acoustic IR from 3-Sigma and with no amp block.  The other half is straight from the guitar, doubled an octave up by about 30%, delayed 9ms and slightly wet.  The EQ provides an opportunity to fill in some of the gaps and compensate for the humps created by the sim and it also lets me use the master level control to adjust the balance between the simulated tone and the straight guitar tone.  The straight guitar path helps a lot particularly when picking one string at a time.  The acoustic sim straight out sucks on single notes and really only works for strumming but by adding a percentage of straight guitar tone I'm getting some of that back.  Like I said, it's not perfect but it's much, much  better.  I am now using 5 blocks to get my simulated acoustic tone: the sim, the 12, a delay, an EQ and the IR.  It's a complicated set of variables to adjust but I think there is potential there and I'm making some headway. 

 

So thanks guys.  I know it wasn't directly about what you were discussing but the discussion helped me on a different matter.

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30 minutes ago, MGW-Alberta said:

This is only indirectly related to the subject of the original post.   It is related .... but only indirectly.

When the acoustic simulator was introduced on Helix I gave it a try and was underwhelmed.  I watched some videos on it.  I think one of them might have been by Sadites.  At any rate I kind of gave up on it but after pondering on some of the ideas in this thread I experimented with a few things and made some improvements.  It's still not a great acoustic tone but it's better than I was getting before.  I made a split in the path such that the unmolested signal from the electric guitar goes straight into path B.  The acoustic sim still sits on path A and I reduced the shimmer to zero. The body is about 3 and top is about 5 and I boosted it by about 2db.  On path B, I added the 12-string block and adjusted it to a very low blend level.  It's not there to simulate a 12-string.  It's just there to give more liveliness and jangle to the tone and the blend is low in an attempt to reduce the impact of the unnatural synth kinds of sounds pitch shifters produce because I am not using any distortion to cover up that synthy sound.  After the 12-string block I 100% delayed path B by 9ms with zero repeats.  Adding any repeats at all just turned it to mush and introduced some weird artifacts.  After the 12-string block and the delay I also added to path B a chorus and a 10-band EQ.  So half of my "acoustic" sound is straight from the simulator and dry, running through an acoustic IR from 3-Sigma and with no amp block.  The other half is straight from the guitar, doubled an octave up by about 30%, delayed 9ms and slightly wet.  The EQ provides an opportunity to fill in some of the gaps and compensate for the humps created by the sim and it also lets me use the master level control to adjust the balance between the simulated tone and the straight guitar tone.  The straight guitar path helps a lot particularly when picking one string at a time.  The acoustic sim straight out sucks on single notes and really only works for strumming but by adding a percentage of straight guitar tone I'm getting some of that back.  Like I said, it's not perfect but it's much, much  better.  I am now using 5 blocks to get my simulated acoustic tone: the sim, the 12, a delay, an EQ and the IR.  It's a complicated set of variables to adjust but I think there is potential there and I'm making some headway. 

 

So thanks guys.  I know it wasn't directly about what you were discussing but the discussion helped me on a different matter.

Also interesting to try.  Appreciate it

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