Helix as AI/Neural plugins/Reaper as recorder

[pavelo01]

Hello,

Does anybody use helix lt as audio interface? I have neural plugins connected with helix as AI and when I try open reaper I cannot record.

 

On helix I have output path 1 - usb 3/4 and path 2 input - usb 3/4, on the neural plugins setting I have audio input channels 3 and 4 and audio output channels 3 and 4, on reaper I have input channel 1 - 8 and output channel 1 - 8. Still when I open reaper the first message is: "There was an error opening the audio hardware: Error initializing ASIO buffers"

I use recomendation to treat helix as audio interface from neural dsp:

Helix Audio Path:

Connect the Helix to your computer via USB.

Create a new patch.

Leave the input to path 1A as “Multi”, change the output of path 1A to “USB 3/4”.

Set the input of path 2A as “USB 3/4” and leave the output of 2A as “Multi” (or whatever you want).

Open your NDSP plugin of choice…Nameless, NTS or Abasi (they have full midi support).

Click on the gear icon in the bottom left corner, select the Helix as input and output.

Then choose Audio Input Channels 3 and 4 and Audio Output channels 3 and 4.

At this point, your signal flow is as follows:
Guitar —> Helix Input to path 1A —> out from Helix via USB 3/4 —> in to NDSP plugin via audio 3/4 —> Out of NDSP plugin via audio 3/4 —> in to Helix path 2A via USB 3/4 —> out of Helix via XLR, 1/4’ or whatever to speakers or headphones.

What this means anything you put in path 1A will be pre NDSP plugin and anything you put in path 2A will be post. I find this pretty handy for adding effects to Nameless and NTS since they have a limited set of effects built in.

NDSP Plugin Midi Setup:

On the NDSP plugin open the midi configuration dialog box
Click the plus to add a midi command, and choose “Program Change Preset”
Select the preset you want to switch to.
Assign a midi PC # (Program Change). It doesn’t really matter what #s you pick, just remember the #s because you’ll need them later to program the Helix.
Repeat this process for all of the presets you want to switch between. In my case, I have clean, crunch, heavy and lead presets and I assigned PCs 40-43 respectivel

 

Please help.... 

[rd2rk]

DL and install HX Edit v3.11. That will install all of the necessary drivers and replace any that have gotten corrupted (reinstall if necessary).

Use HX Edit v3.11 to update the FW in your Helix to v3.11.

Open Reaper. Did the error message go away? Until that happens, the rest is academic.

[pavelo01]

Hello,

Thanks for Your help.

I installed new HX edit 3.11.

When I open reaper and helix lt   and open neural plugin I have the same information: "There was an error opening the audio hardware: Error initializing ASIO buffers"

When I open first neural plugin and helix lt and then reaper the situation is the same: "There was an error opening the audio hardware: Error initializing ASIO buffers"

My hope is broken.....

When i used only reaper and helix everything was ok, I could record on reaper.

When I use helix lt as a AI and turn ON neural plugin - reaper always says to me: "There was an error opening the audio hardware: Error initializing ASIO buffers"

 

 

[rd2rk]

It sounds like the plugin itself is crashing the ASIO driver in Reaper. Do you have any other plugins you can try? Maybe DL the FREE version of Amplitube?

[pavelo01]

I used free plugins from neural dsp. I have tried many options to connect helix as AI and plugins from neural and record in reaper. I have paid for licensed for personal for reaper and when I cannot record I feel terrible.  

[rd2rk]

Also, do try what I suggested - load some other free sims and try them to eliminate your system as the culprit.

[rd2rk]

OK, I see the free trials. Which ones are you using?

[rd2rk]

I see that these require iLock (EEWWW!).

Is the latest version (5.4.1 if PC) installed and running?

AND are you sure that you're not past the 14 day trial period?

[phil_m]

Are you running the Neural plug-ins inside of Reaper or are you launching the standalone versions? They have both, and it sounds like you may be trying to use the standalone versions.

[rd2rk]

I DL'd the Fortin pack and, after the usual fight with iLOK (I HATE iLOK) I got it running.

First time I ran it I got an "Expiration Notice" with the date the trial will expire.

I didn't get it again on subsequent starts of Reaper, so I'm guessing it's a once a day thing.

Otherwise, no problems, either with Helix as AI or my Scarlett as AI.

In both cases, all I did was load a blank preset in Helix and set the Output to USB 1/2 (Helix) or XLR (Scarlett).

Reaper track input was 1/2, output 1/2.

 

 

[pavelo01]

Thank You.

I will try today.

As You write - I had blank preset on helix and I tried in path 1 - Output to USB 1/2 and on path 2 - Input USB 1/2 than on reaper input 1/2 and output 1/2....

 

[SaschaFranck]

If you want to run your straight guitar signal into Reaper, you should use USB Outs 7/8, they're delivering the DI signal.

Others than that, even if you get it working, you won't be too happy as the latency of the Helix as an interface for software monitoring is horrible.

[pavelo01]

26 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

If you want to run your straight guitar signal into Reaper, you should use USB Outs 7/8, they're delivering the DI signal.

Others than that, even if you get it working, you won't be too happy as the latency of the Helix as an interface for software monitoring is horrible.

 

I will try.

Blank preset on helix - end of path 1 - output 1/2 (Neural  -  input 1/2 and ouput 1/2) path 2 - input 1/2, end of path 2 - output 7/8 - reaper input 7/8?

[SaschaFranck]

No, you don't need to do *any* routing on the Helix for this to work. USB Outs 7/8 always represent your direct guitar signal. So just select one of these on a mono track as your input in Reaper. Reaper's output should go straight to USB 1/2 and not require any additional routing inside the Helix, either, as it's the standard USB return path.
All you need to make sure is that software monitoring is engaged inside Reaper (I have no idea how you do that as I'm using Logic, but it should be easy enough to find out).

[pavelo01]

I have to select output USB 7/8 at the end path 2 on helix?

[SaschaFranck]

12 minutes ago, pavelo01 said:

I have to select output USB 7/8 at the end path 2 on helix?

 

No. At least by default, this is "hardwired" inside the Helix.

The direct guitar input signal always goes straight to USB 7/8. Hence, this is the input you want to chose in Reaper.

USB 1/2 is the default USB return to the Helix (also used when you, say, use the Helix as your global sound device). Hence, this is the main output Reaper should be using.

In other words: If you don't do anything on a Helix patch (you should/could even mute it), when you plug in your guitar, the dry guitar signal should already be present on the USB inputs 7/8 in Reaper. And in case you use USB outputs 1/2 in Reaper, things should play back just fine. No further actions required. All other routing options are for "special" scenarios.

[pavelo01]

OK. Thank You.  I hope today connect all correctly.

[datacommando]

18 hours ago, pavelo01 said:

Connect the Helix to your computer via USB.

Hi,

 

To avoid confusion, I would suggest that the first thing you should do is get your Helix LT working as an Audio Interface with Reaper, then figure out how to add the Neural plug-ins.

 

See the latest Helix LT 3.0 Owner’s Manual - Rev D - English - USB Audio pages 69 - 72.

 

https://line6.com/support/manuals/helixlt

 

Once you can get sound into, and back out of Reaper, the easier it will become. You appear to be concentrating on the plug-in more than the hardware that you really need to know how to use as an AI.

 

Treat it logically, one piece at a time.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

Here’s a video of a guy setting up a Helix with Studio One that may help.

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by datacommando
Added video link

[rd2rk]

The reason that I didn't suggest using USB 7 as input to Reaper is BECAUSE it is your DIRECT signal, unprocessed by anything you might choose to put in either path.

For instance - WAH, Poly Capo, Helix ODs or Mods. The NDSP plugins have a VERY limited selection of these.

 

Also, as I said, none of that matters if the plugin is crashing the Helix ASIO drivers. If iLok is not set up properly or you've gone past the 14 day TRIAL period (the NDSP FREE plugins are NOT FREE!), that could be causing the crashes. All the rest is academic if you can't get the plugin to run in the first place!

[rd2rk]

Regarding latency - @SaschaFranckis correct that, as AIs go, Helix has crappy latency.

At 128spls with ONLY the NDSP plugin in the project, I get 20.2ms RT Latency reported by Reaper.

If I use a lower Sample Rate I get glitches. This is on a 7th gen i7 with 16gb Ram.

A better PC would allow a lower sample rate for lower glitch-free latency, but it's all relative

Running Helix into my 2nd gen Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 I can use 64spls for 7.6ms RT Latency, glitch free.

That's fairly accurate, as I'm using S/PDIF, which cuts another 2ms off what would otherwise be 9.6ms using an analog connection.

 

@SaschaFranckwill now jump in to contest everything I just said and tell you how much better his AI is than mine, but my point is that the generally accepted threshold for "hearing" latency is 10ms (less for vocals). "Feeling" latency is totally subjective. Steve Vai claims he can "feel" 2ms (yet he uses digital FX - go figure). Even if you have a top of the line i9 totally optimized for audio, Helix latency will still never be a match for even a decent quality external AI with S/PDIF.

 

BUT... can YOU feel it? Only YOU can answer that question.

[SaschaFranck]

16 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

@SaschaFranckwill now jump in to contest everything I just said and tell you how much better his AI is than mine

 

No, he won't.

[rd2rk]

16 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

No, he won't.

 

WHO ARE YOU? What did you do with the Sascha we know and love? :-)

[pavelo01]

8 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

No. At least by default, this is "hardwired" inside the Helix.

The direct guitar input signal always goes straight to USB 7/8. Hence, this is the input you want to chose in Reaper.

USB 1/2 is the default USB return to the Helix (also used when you, say, use the Helix as your global sound device). Hence, this is the main output Reaper should be using.

In other words: If you don't do anything on a Helix patch (you should/could even mute it), when you plug in your guitar, the dry guitar signal should already be present on the USB inputs 7/8 in Reaper. And in case you use USB outputs 1/2 in Reaper, things should play back just fine. No further actions required. All other routing options are for "special" scenarios.

 

I did 7/8 input in reaper and output 1/2 in reaper. When i use reaper and helix I can record, everything is ok. But when I open neural plugins I have to choose  audio setting on neural plugin.

 Audio device type - done asio, audio device - when I choose ASIO HELIX appears table: "error when trying to opne audio device! cannot creat i/o buffers"

When i use only helix and neural plugins - is ok, than I open reaper appears the same info on reaper  "There was an error opening the audio hardware: Error initializing ASIO buffers"

 

Am I start to pray:( ???

[rd2rk]

It sounds like you're trying to have both the NDSP STANDALONE version AND Reaper open at the same time.

Not only is there no purpose in doing that, but you can only have ONE ASIO app open at a time. THAT's why you're getting that error!

Use the PLUGIN within Reaper to record. Use the STANDALONE by itself when you're NOT recording.

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, pavelo01 said:

But when I open neural plugins I have to choose  audio setting on neural plugin.

 

I think you may be getting confused by the Neural plug-in and Standalone version.

 

You need to open it as a plug-in in the recording channel of Reaper and Reaper will control the the signal flow.

 

If you are trying to open the Neural Plug-in outside of Reaper in the Standalone version IT WILL NOT WORK.

 

Check the settings in Reaper to see if the Neural "Fortin Nameless", "NTS" and "Abasi" VST plug-in are installed and load them into the channel just like any other plug-in.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[SaschaFranck]

19 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

It sounds like you're trying to have both the NDSP STANDALONE version AND Reaper open at the same time.

 

This! Has even been suggested before by Phil.

 

To @pavelo01: Before we continue here, please make sure to inform yourself about the very basics of using a DAW such as Reaper and how to use plugins inside that very DAW. There's a manual, an apparently well running forum and so on.