To FRFR or not to FRFR, here's my dilemma!

[Nos402]

So I play a Variax into a Helix. In some bands I play bass and sometimes Keys as well.

 

Usually I run my Helix direct and use in-ears. 

 

Occasionally I play with bands who don't want to have anything in their monitors that they don't absolutely need so they prefer some stage amps. 

 

Because of this I've considered some FRFR options. However since this isn't something I do often I don't really want to buy some of the more expensive options which are supposedly better. I've been considering the Alto TS312 which a buddy of mine swears by but in the videos I've watched it seems super bass heavy to me (some seem to have had better luck with the TS310 but I wonder if that would that be adequate for bass). My though is that if I get a FRFR I can use for guitar, bass, or keys when necessary.

 

Ah, but I also have a Spider V 120 as a backup rig and in my tests, running my Helix into that with no amp/cab selected on the Spider seems to do a pretty good job for guitar. I don't think they were built to handle bass though. So since I already have a guitar "amp" option for my Helix, I *could* instead just get  a small bass combo. Several friends recommend something in the Fender Rumble series, and one friend says used Carvin MB15s are great bang for the buck as they are discontinued. 

 

Opinions? 1. get a  FRFR for bass, guitar and keys. 2. Use the Spider for guitar and get a small bass combo for bass. Thanks!

[SaschaFranck]

8 hours ago, Nos402 said:

I've been considering the Alto TS312 which a buddy of mine swears by but in the videos I've watched it seems super bass heavy to me

 

I'm using the TS310 with great successn (IMO at least, colleagues and FOH dudes always seem to be happy, too) - and yes, I explicitely bought the 10" version because the 12" tends to get flubby (I A/B-ed them directly). I think it's a great choice for the things I'm doing, it also works nice for, say, double bass in a lower volume setting (I'm playing in an acoustic trio occasionally, the bass player has one as well). Personally, I'm playing a rather wide range of styles from funky/jazzy/souly things to solid rock. The TS does all that fine and I hardly ever need to reach for the global EQ.

So far, so good.

But: If I was playing electric bass through it (or maybe even just some metal riffing, something I'm not into myself), I'd think about something more solid. I have played some bass through the TS for a testride and once things need to push air a bit (and that's what I expect from a pleasant bass sound), you won't be too happy. The thing is very light and as such it's no good foundation for lower frequencies, as, due to the nature of physics, it'll start to vibrate/resonate. Nothing audible (as in rattling or anything) but you're losing "pressure" for sure. You won't be able to nicely "fill" a stage with these speakers. And the 12" seems to make no difference there. You might want to give it a testride, though, but be sure to check at gig volumes. Ideally along with a drummer.

 

Fwiw, personally, I might even go for a JBL IRX 108. Played through one of them briefly and they should do at least as good as the TS310 for my purposes while still being more portable (my plans are to get rid of the car entirely in 1-2 years and do pretty much everything by bike or train - climate change is a real thing).

[codamedia]

8 hours ago, Nos402 said:

Occasionally I play with bands who don't want to have anything in their monitors that they don't absolutely need so they prefer some stage amps. 

 

This is exactly the reason I pushed myself toward getting an FRFR. I am usually quite content with stage monitors or IEM's, but there are times when you need to take care of yourself on stage. I'm a multi-instrumentalist with a combination of acoustic and electrics so staying full range was important to me. 

 

Like you, I didn't want to make a huge investment since I don't need it for very many gigs. My local store had plenty to choose from and I decided to go with a Cerwin Vega CVE-10 (there is also a CVE-12 & CVE-15) which was just a little more than an Alto or Headrush. They aren't very common, but if you find one they sound great and are very versatile. 

[zappazapper]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the Spider can't be a viable option for bass, or anything really. It's got a full-range speaker system. I'd start with trying to dial something in with that before spending money unnecessarily.

[Nos402]

5 hours ago, zappazapper said:

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the Spider can't be a viable option for bass, or anything really. It's got a full-range speaker system. I'd start with trying to dial something in with that before spending money unnecessarily.

 

The only reason I wrote it off was that at one point I asked support if it was okay to use the Spider for Bass and they said they wouldn't recommend it above bedroom levels.

[spaceatl]

I have a pair of ts212s I have been using for about 4-5 years. I love them...Generally, only need one for a guitar gig...maybe two for a bigger stage. I play bass also...more so lately...I have a TS315 use for bass gigs...bigger stages I might bring a ts212 along....ts315 for guitar is pretty nice also...kinda overkill but it sounds nice...The new ts315 is pretty amazing....The power upgrade is obvious to me...really happy with my alto stuff.

[zappazapper]

I have four Alto TX10s. They're great for my little jam room but I took one along as a guitar amp once with my X3L and it didn't really work out. I'm sure I had some gain staging issues but it didn't seem to have the "burst" power of a tube amp. Like it could be loud but it couldn't be dynamic, like when you have a clean lead country tone, like a cranked Deluxe, and you dig in with the pick on the low strings and it just goes POW!! I couldn't get it to do that at stage volume. I think if I used it more I could figure out how it works but there really isn't a good argument to bring it instead of the Boogie combo I have that does it at really any setting, other than the same curiosity I had the night I tried it. 

[silverhead]

19 minutes ago, zappazapper said:

I have four Alto TX10s. They're great for my little jam room but I took one along as a guitar amp once with my X3L and it didn't really work out. I'm sure I had some gain staging issues but it didn't seem to have the "burst" power of a tube amp. Like it could be loud but it couldn't be dynamic, like when you have a clean lead country tone, like a cranked Deluxe, and you dig in with the pick on the low strings and it just goes POW!! I couldn't get it to do that at stage volume. I think if I used it more I could figure out how it works but there really isn't a good argument to bring it instead of the Boogie combo I have that does it at really any setting, other than the same curiosity I had the night I tried it. 

Two things going on here, I think:

1) An FRFR solution with an amp/FX modeler will never sound like the 'amp in the room'. True by definition with any modeler from any manufacturer.

2) The X3L is more than 10 yrs old. It just doesn't have good dynamic response to the string-digging. Helix is much better in that regard.

[ChaserHUN]

My Helix just arrived a few days ago, I originally ordered a Headrush 112 but got an Alesis drum monitor 112, wich is like the same thing marketed for differrent users. I think it sounds pretty decent, of course not as good as stuido monitors and doesn't moves are like a regular cab.
I play bass in drop A# in a metal band. the lows doesn't seem to be as thumping as on my Hartke 410, but still has a pretty big low end. It seem pretty loud  as well and I have only tested it on 4-5. I am going to test it on the weekend to know how it holds up in the rehearsal space. It is still going to be better bringing this with me than lugging around huge cabs.

[Nos402]

After much consideration, research, reading, and discussion with people who know far better than me, I've opted to get a QSC K10.2. I ordered one but now we wait for them to actually come back in stock!

[theElevators]

Headrush 108 is excellent: light, compact and loud.  I leave it in the trunk of my car all the time.  You can even play bass through it (if you don't blast it through it).  I don't know, but all the amps I've had are so ridiculously heavy, it's as if they are loaded with bricks.  If you play through a processor, then FRFR is really the only thing you need.  Just keep in mind they tend to bee too boomy, so use your mixing monitors to dial in your sound instead of relying on the FRFR.  

[pianoguyy]

A used JBL Eon can be had cheap (get two for stereo). And, there are so many models, you have a wide array of options to choose from.  

 

But also, since an external speaker system is not your primary device - I would continue to design your tone as you currently do. And just run a cheap device as needed. 

Even when using a device, you can still run direct which means your tone is still 'your tone'. All the device will do is provide on-stage monitoring. Do you need your tone to be 100% accurate when it is only for you to hear yourself? To me, that means you don't even need a good device; just something to provide enough volume. 

So, check your local Craigslist type place and pick up a cheap bass amp. Or keyboard amp (I have a Peavey KB/A 100). The world is your oyster. 

[Nos402]

2 hours ago, pianoguyy said:

A used JBL Eon can be had cheap (get two for stereo). And, there are so many models, you have a wide array of options to choose from.  

 

But also, since an external speaker system is not your primary device - I would continue to design your tone as you currently do. And just run a cheap device as needed. 

Even when using a device, you can still run direct which means your tone is still 'your tone'. All the device will do is provide on-stage monitoring. Do you need your tone to be 100% accurate when it is only for you to hear yourself? To me, that means you don't even need a good device; just something to provide enough volume. 

So, check your local Craigslist type place and pick up a cheap bass amp. Or keyboard amp (I have a Peavey KB/A 100). The world is your oyster. 

 

I think this mails it pretty good for me. I went ahead and ordered a QSC K10.2 but yeah, I'm not super picky about the on stage sound as I will usually be running direct, and will feed it direct to the PA. Never the less I do like to have good gear so after a ton of researching and discussing the QSC is what I settled on as it seems pretty universally loved.