QSC K10.2 Issue

[partone]

I thought I would share my experience with the K10.2 as an FRFR since I didn't see anything but positive reviews before I purchased mine. I ordered a k10.2 in August, it was on back order and I received it in mid November. The speaker sounds great, I primarily used the stgmon1 dsp setting. As far as tone goes I found it far superior to the headrush FRFR108 I own.

 

Now to the bad news. Received the first speaker and during the second practice the speaker cuts out and I receive a "Protect Mode 4 Possible Speaker Damage Detected" message. I walk through the on screen prompts, 100hz tone plays and everything sounds normal. The next practice it happens again, twice. I google, which if you are looking at a k10.2 I encourage you to search "Protect Mode 4," and find there may be a firmware issue. Turns out the speaker is on the latest firmware so that is not the problem. I return the speaker and get a new one shipped which arrives in time for the next weekly practice. Once again, the speaker fails twice in the first hour with the same message. I am done with these speakers and am now searching for something else. Powercab here I come????

 

We practice in a small basement, not a loud setting, without much distortion, the QSC was set at 0db with the helix knob at 11 o'clock. I tried mic and line input/output settings on both the Helix and the QSC with the same issue occurring. Needless to say I am disappointed, which is compounded by the fact that the price of the K10.2, along with comparable speakers, increased by over $100 between the time I ordered the speaker and now, which puts comparable options out of my budget.  

 

If you are looking at the k10.2 beware, they do not seem to be a viable option for modelers, although this issue has been reported in many other settings.

[DunedinDragon]

I've had my K10.2 for about a year and a half and use it every single week in live performances and have yet to have this failure.  In researching this fault it's clear that the fault is typically caused by a direct signal that's consistently too hot so the fault is triggered until a test is run on the speaker through the speaker's built in interface to determine if there's actual damage and to clear the fault.  I'm relatively certain that the reason I've never seen this fault is because I meticulously gain stage my signal levels on all my presets and snapshots coming out of the Helix through my QSC TM-30 mixer and that mixer is where my K10.2 is connected.

The Helix volume knob works as an attenuator for adjusting the analog output signal from the Helix after it's been converted from the digital signal chain used internally in the Helix.  I've occasionally gone direct to the K10.2 from my Helix with no problems, but again I'm constantly checking both my internal digital signal levels using the internal Helix signal meter that gets displayed when you select the output block, as well as the analogy signal level coming out of the Helix.  In my case I set my Helix XLR outputs to Mic signal level because it's going to a mixing board, but you can use Line level as long as you specify that adjustment on the K10.2 menu.  Mic signal level is considerably lower than a Line signal level.  By selecting a Line signal level on the K10.2 it makes the appropriate adjustments on the speaker for the hotter incoming signal.  You control the signal level coming out of the Helix !/4" and XLR outputs via the global ins/out settings.  You should carefully read the instructions in your user manual on pages 10 - 12 to better understand these settings.  You should be setting these signals in such a way that you get no yellow signal lights when playing.

All that being said, there's one area other than a mismatch between signal level being sent and signal level being expected on the 10.2 that could potentially cause problems and that's the digital levels used within the Helix signal chain and can be monitored via the built-in signal meter on the Helix by selecting the output block and is controlled on a preset by preset basis generally by adjusting the channel volume parameter of the Amp model within the preset.  In my case I never exceed about 60 to 65% on the internal Helix signal meter.

 

[partone]

@DunedinDragon I was hoping you would weigh in! Thanks for the input. For the first two failures I was running the XLR outs on the helix as mic and input setting as mic on the k10.2. I switched the helix and QSC to line and experienced the same result.

 

I did monitor via output block and I would say the signal was peaking at 75-80%. Maybe too hot?

 

I will admit, with two failing speakers I assumed operator error. After running sound for years, with all QSC equipment, I have been a fan (this was 10 years ago so no experience with k series). I am going to try two more things before I return it and go with something else. First I will check my preset and see if I can dial back that signal level as you suggest to 60-65 percent. Second, I will run through the board and see what happens. So far I have been going direct but can give the board a shot.
 

@DunedinDragon Out of curiosity do you know what firmware you are running on your K10.2? Thanks again for the input, I sincerely hope it is operator error.

 

[spaceatl]

Yea, dsp and fans in a monitor is just more failure points...I dropped QSC in the late 90s as they got passed by...They make good stuff...just way overpriced for what it does imo. 

[DunedinDragon]

8 hours ago, partone said:

 

@DunedinDragon Out of curiosity do you know what firmware you are running on your K10.2? Thanks again for the input, I sincerely hope it is operator error.

 

 

I'll have to get back to you on that as I've got everything packed up right now for a rehearsal, but I'll check when I get it set up.

[willjrock]

Ive dropped QSC for good. Apparently theyve had a fire at their lab, and ive been waiting on a repair for one of my 10.2s for 8 months now.  Ive replaced my two K10s with two mission 2 x12 cabs that sound FAR better and as soon as they get the other cab fixed i will sell them both and be done with QSC for good.

Sorry but you have to be able to provide the support you advertise, even if that means sub contracting the work out, as opposed to letting the customers suffer.

 

QSC wont be around much longer at the rate theyre going so getting off the QSC bandwagon ASAP is a good move for anyone.... and besides the Mission engineering set-up just sounds way better.

 

 

[MikeMcK]

This has been discussed a lot recently and it's a real problem.

 

I know someone who ran into this with new 10.2s. The long story short is that it started with a fairly recent firmware revision. For those who don't know, once it happens, the only way to reset is a procedure which involves test tones playing through the speaker. 

 

The big issue is that it's not a firmware bug... it is supposedly a correction because they were getting too many blown-out speakers under warrantee repair. But the guy I know who had this happen has mixed professionally for a long time & does know his stuff. He's actually anal about sound and brings more speakers so he can keep gains and volumes right in their sweet spots. He swears the two of his that went had gain controls at high noon, that the signal to it was well in range and EQed (for use as monitors) with cuts only. 

 

It also happened in an air-conditioned hall (this was in the summer, and some claim it's heat-related) where he was mixing a wedding band at a reception. The only saving grace was that he'd originally planned to use them at the ceremony, and kept imagining 150 people, including a bride, waiting while the speaker blew through a set of test tones. No good.

 

I had a close call when one of my 12.2s fell and died. It was just a loose wire, but word is that authorized repair centers are required to update firmware to the "Protect Mode 4 failure" version whenever they repair a K1x.2. I was ready to eat the cost of new EVs or something else rather than risk it on gigs.

[alsaloky]

Sorry, just discovered this site/thread.  You may want to start at the end and read backwards.  In summary, it's not the firmware, although that throws an erroneous error code and has not yet been updated as promised months back.  It's also not 'user error'. Since my K10.2s (the second new set) were eventually repaired at the manufacturing facility, and have not failed, I haven't been tracking the saga closely. It's the larger Kx.2 models only - almost all K10.2s and a small percentage of K12.2s.  I have 5 x K8.2s we use as monitors cranked up to 2-3 o'clock all the time and never a failure - none reported that I've heard of on the original long thread.  I don't know that QSC service centers have or don't have the parts availability right now.  As of last summer the only fix was replacing both the amplifier and motherboard modules at the same time, and that was only being done at QSC Costa Mesa.  We ran 2-4 x K10.2s as mains on outdoor concerts the last part of summer, consistently at 1-2 o'clock, without incident - and for several indoor gigs fall and winter so far at 12 o'clock.  Anyway, the tortured tale and particulars are here:  https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/new-qsc-k2-firmware-protect-mode-4.2259353/

[Nos402]

Just found this thread as I too am a K10.2 user for Helix, Nord Stage 3, and Bass (either direct or through a modeler). I have had this happen to me on both guitar and keys at gigs, and just figured it was probably somehow user error on my part as discussed here but it's super frustrating to lose all sound on stage (at least it continues through to the house) and then have to power cycle the monitor and go through the test tone. 

 

I find myself thinking I too should just look for another solution which sucks as I REALLY like the QSC, the ability to plug both my Helix and Nord into separate inputs and send each separately to the house, and the various presets available on the speaker. So much good, but if it's going to cut out on my then it's fairly useless.