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Consistent volume from HX Stomp


loydall
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Hi - I'm using my HX Stomp in the FX Loop of a non master volume amp head. I use the main volume on the helix to act as a volume control for the amp itself (otherwise the amp just runs at full volume). This is fine and it allows me control for bedroom/home use and then gig levels. 

 

But - I also want to send a signal from the HX Stomp straight to PA (with an IR Patch on it as well) but I don't want the main volume on the HX Stomp to effect that level. If I'm playing a gig I might want to turn up the volume on the HX Stomp a bit just to get a bit more from my amp but I wouldn't want it to impact the level going to the PA/Mixing desk.

 

Is this possible?

 

Cheers

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sure, you could use the FX Send in the stomp and assign an output block...You will likely need an IR block right before it. You will want to pull it off the main chain so the IR is isolated from you main outputs and only the FX Send...Stick a direct box on the FX Send. The volume of the HX FX Send (PA output) will stay fixed and you can use the HX volume control for your amp monitor.

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49 minutes ago, spaceatl said:

sure, you could use the FX Send in the stomp and assign an output block...You will likely need an IR block right before it. You will want to pull it off the main chain so the IR is isolated from you main outputs and only the FX Send...Stick a direct box on the FX Send. The volume of the HX FX Send (PA output) will stay fixed and you can use the HX volume control for your amp monitor.

 

Thanks - yes, I think I was heading in that direction. Only slight issue is that I am using the Left FX channel as part of my 4CM. I would (I think) need an additional Right FX block send later in the chain to do what you're saying (which does make sense). That means I need a cable splitter on the FX Send from the Stomp. I do have one but only a very short one. By "Stick a direct box" on the FX send, do you mean a DI Box? I think I have a crappy old one somewhere which I could stick on my board and then run an XLR cable from there.

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yea, you are on it...if you are mono on your 4CM, then you just need to adapter and make sure you are using the discrete sends in the blocks where you need them.

 

Yes, "stick a direct box" is just a vernacular for the HX FX Sends not balanced and generally you may want that PA send to be balanced...Technically, in this case you would not need a Direct Injection Box (DI Box)...You are not injecting it into anything since this is just an output....In this case, you could use a simple direct box (small) as you don't need thru...

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1 hour ago, spaceatl said:

yea, you are on it...if you are mono on your 4CM, then you just need to adapter and make sure you are using the discrete sends in the blocks where you need them.

 

Yes, "stick a direct box" is just a vernacular for the HX FX Sends not balanced and generally you may want that PA send to be balanced...Technically, in this case you would not need a Direct Injection Box (DI Box)...You are not injecting it into anything since this is just an output....In this case, you could use a simple direct box (small) as you don't need thru...

 

Thanks. That's got it sorted. Independent volume control (or rather consistent volume on the signal going to PA). That's great.

 

Another question I have is that I'm using 4CM so the preamp signal of my real amp is coming back into the HXStomp, maybe a bit of reverb and then back out to the FX Return/Powerstage of the amp. That part of it is great. When I split the signal off to go to the PA I'm effectively taking the preamp signal splitting it, running that through an IR and then out to a PA. But, that means the signal never goes though a Power Amp stage. (Well, it does, it goes through a PA power amp but not a guitar amp power stage). The difference is like comparing the helix preamps to the helix amps. The amps always sounds a bit brighter/fuller than just the preamps because they model the power stage as well. Is there anything I could do to emulate just a power-amp stage for that preamp signal coming from my amp?

 

I guess an EQ before the IR would do something similar.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, loydall said:

 

Thanks. That's got it sorted. Independent volume control (or rather consistent volume on the signal going to PA). That's great.

 

Another question I have is that I'm using 4CM so the preamp signal of my real amp is coming back into the HXStomp, maybe a bit of reverb and then back out to the FX Return/Powerstage of the amp. That part of it is great. When I split the signal off to go to the PA I'm effectively taking the preamp signal splitting it, running that through an IR and then out to a PA. But, that means the signal never goes though a Power Amp stage. (Well, it does, it goes through a PA power amp but not a guitar amp power stage). The difference is like comparing the helix preamps to the helix amps. The amps always sounds a bit brighter/fuller than just the preamps because they model the power stage as well. Is there anything I could do to emulate just a power-amp stage for that preamp signal coming from my amp?

 

I guess an EQ before the IR would do something similar.

 

 

 

 

 

Live, I don't think you really need the power section of the model for the PA...No one will know and you aren't listening to that anyway...How much the power section adds depends on the model itself...If you are a JCM800 sorta dude, it won't matter at all...No one who ever got a great tone of a real one ever pushed that power section because the tone was in the preamp...power section kinda sucks actually...You gotta choose the IR that fits your cabinet the best and gets you closest to what you want...A little extra EQ could be good to focus it....You could do what we did in the old days with XT platform and stick a tube buffer on your direct to give it a bit of class A movement...Personally, I would not worry about it. If you really want to get your amp tone direct, then get a Hughes & Kettner Red Box DI and inject that on your speaker line.....Add an attenuator after it and you can adjust your volume without changing your direct line...

 

For your situation, An attenuator actually makes more sense to me. At least that is how I did it when I ran that way. H&K Box has several cab emulations on it that are great....If you want to try it for about $30, get the Behringer Ultra G...The 412 cab in it is actually quite good. I have used it many many times...H&K is a bit better, but not $200 better imo....

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Yeah - certainly the attenuator option is the way to go long term but short term this is my fix. I actually compared mic-ing up my cab and going straight to PA vs taking the preamp signal through an IR and going to the PA. The mic signal was much brighter so I found an eq block before the IR worked wonders (I tried loads of IRs and none were as bright as the actual mic-ed amp). Neither were a bad sound, just quite different. 

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When you get down to it, that is mostly what a guitar cab IR is comprised of...it's mostly EQ curve mimicking the response of a speaker/ the mic on it and the room it's in...typically a 12" and typically rolling off at 80Hz and 5kHz with an SM57 or 409 on or off-axis depending on the situation.....If you want the IR of the mic then you need another IR to bring into the picture(what you did with your EQ)...This will be the air and stuff around 5k and above it....You could always try shooting an IR of your cab, your mic in your room...

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