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Globally disable all Cab Blocks and Impulse Response Blocks to use with real speaker cab


GotMetalBoy
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19 hours ago, GotMetalBoy said:

Is there a way to globally disable all Cab Blocks and Impulse Response Blocks to use a Helix Floor with real speaker cab? Sorry if I missed it but I've read the manual and searched the forum.

 

Just assign all of them to the same footswitch and voilà. Then, if you save those blocks as Favourites, they'll reload the same FS assignation, when you reuse them in a different preset.

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12 minutes ago, PierM said:

 

Just assign all of them to the same footswitch and voilà. Then, if you save those blocks as Favourites, they'll reload the same FS assignation, when you reuse them in a different preset.

 

I was hoping I wouldn't have to edit every preset bc that's way too time consuming and I wanted to demo the Helix to a prospective buyer who uses real speaker cabs and not FRFR. Looks like they'll be going with an Axe-Fx III because they need to be able to quickly change between speakers and FRFR.

 

No wonder I've heard a lot of complaints that the Helix sounds muffled. It's because places like Guitar Center are having people play them through real speaker cabs with the presets that all have either the cab block or IR block enabled.

 

I only use FRFR, so the Helix Floor and Helix Native are perfect for me and bc they work seamlessly together and are simple to use, my Axe-Fx II XL+ has just been collecting dust.

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52 minutes ago, GotMetalBoy said:

 

I was hoping I wouldn't have to edit every preset bc that's way too time consuming and I wanted to demo the Helix to a prospective buyer who uses real speaker cabs and not FRFR. Looks like they'll be going with an Axe-Fx III because they need to be able to quickly change between speakers and FRFR.

 

No wonder I've heard a lot of complaints that the Helix sounds muffled. It's because places like Guitar Center are having people play them through real speaker cabs with the presets that all have either the cab block or IR block enabled.

 

I only use FRFR, so the Helix Floor and Helix Native are perfect for me and bc they work seamlessly together and are simple to use, my Axe-Fx II XL+ has just been collecting dust.

 

Sure, I was just trying to give you a possible solution.

 

Said that, that scenario, doesn't make much sense to me, as most of the time, in a Helix preset, there are time effects placed post amp/cab blocks, or parallel, or in the middle of an amp and a cab. These effects, just placed before a real amp as they are, would sound totally garbage. So, isn't just amp/cab you should turn off when going direct to an amp, but also the entire preset and routing, should be re-considered from scratch or properly modified for the purpose. Then, if a buyer uses a real amp/cab - there is the HX FX right there for this goal.

 

IME/IMHO. :)

 

 

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Also forgot; Helix has a dedicated hardware button (Amp Icon), that does jump straight to amp/IR blocks. So, it's like 2 clicks to select and bypass, even in the most complex and messy presets, since that button just automatically select amp/IRs at first click. :)

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2 hours ago, GotMetalBoy said:

No wonder I've heard a lot of complaints that the Helix sounds muffled. It's because places like Guitar Center are having people play them through real speaker cabs with the presets that all have either the cab block or IR block enabled.

 

Lol... every big box Megalomusic store in the world is the same. I learned long ago that the average counter-jockey in those places is ill-equipped to demo shoelaces, nevermind the likes of a Helix....;)

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3 hours ago, PierM said:

Just assign all of them to the same footswitch and voilà. Then, if you save those blocks as Favourites, they'll reload the same FS assignation, when you reuse them in a different preset.

 

This will only work globally in case you assign them to an external footswitch.

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1 hour ago, PierM said:

Also forgot; Helix has a dedicated hardware button (Amp Icon), that does jump straight to amp/IR blocks. So, it's like 2 clicks to select and bypass, even in the most complex and messy presets, since that button just automatically select amp/IRs at first click. :)

 

So, are you saying that's something you'd like to do at soundcheck? For each patch?

 

I'd rather program dedicated patches for each situation (real cab vs. FR amplification).

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6 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

So, are you saying that's something you'd like to do at soundcheck? For each patch?

 

I'd rather program dedicated patches for each situation (real cab vs. FR amplification).

 

I agree. I appreciate their suggestions but when trying to convince someone to buy a product, it doesn't look good having to keep editing each preset. It makes it seem too complicated even though the Helix is a lot more user friendly than Fractal Audio Systems products but with FAS products you just go into the Global menu and disable the Cab Block for all presets.

 

I'm really surprised that the Helix Cab/IR blocks can't be globally disabled bc that's kind of a necessity, especially if you're playing shows where you don't know what you'll be plugging into. I've played at shows and open jams where the sound guy refused to let me plugin direct bc they had never heard of IR's, so I had to plugin into a guitar amp but I was using an Axe-Fx II and could quickly disable cabs globally. One time just to prove a point, I disconnected the XLR cable from the mic on the guitar cab and plugged it into my Axe-Fx II. The sound guy was in disbelief I was plugged in direct bc of how good IR's can sound.

 

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10 minutes ago, GotMetalBoy said:

 

I agree. I appreciate their suggestions but when trying to convince someone to buy a product, it doesn't look good having to keep editing each preset. It makes it seem too complicated even though the Helix is a lot more user friendly than Fractal Audio Systems products but with FAS products you just go into the Global menu and disable the Cab Block for all presets.

 

I'm really surprised that the Helix Cab/IR blocks can't be globally disabled bc that's kind of a necessity, especially if you're playing shows where you don't know what you'll be plugging into. I've played at shows and open jams where the sound guy refused to let me plugin direct bc they had never heard of IR's, so I had to plugin into a guitar amp but I was using an Axe-Fx II and could quickly disable cabs globally. One time just to prove a point, I disconnected the XLR cable from the mic on the guitar cab and plugged it into my Axe-Fx II. The sound guy was in disbelief I was plugged in direct bc of how good IR's can sound.

 


The issue with the Helix, there isn’t just a single cab block per preset. You can have up to four cab blocks in a preset, and you also have the complication that there’s a separate IR block. So it’s possible that someone has a preset where they switch between two different cab blocks or a cab and an IR block… And there other scenarios beyond that. It’s not something that lends itself to global changes.

 

What I do is simply have separate presets for going direct and for plugging into an amp. I gig both ways, and I’ve just found that to be the easiest way to do what I need to do.

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20 hours ago, phil_m said:


The issue with the Helix, there isn’t just a single cab block per preset. You can have up to four cab blocks in a preset, and you also have the complication that there’s a separate IR block. So it’s possible that someone has a preset where they switch between two different cab blocks or a cab and an IR block… And there other scenarios beyond that. It’s not something that lends itself to global changes.

 

What I do is simply have separate presets for going direct and for plugging into an amp. I gig both ways, and I’ve just found that to be the easiest way to do what I need to do.

 

The Axe-Fx II and III can have multiple cab/IR blocks and routing and they each have channels for each block and when you disable cabs in the global setting it disables them all.

 

I help a lot of people setup their rigs, especially MIDI Foot Controllers like the FAMC Liquid Foot+ and RJM Mastermind but have been trying to get more people to use the Helix Floor because it's so easy to setup and teach how to use. I think Line 6 should either include a bank of Factory presets with Cab/IR blocks enabled and a bank w/o or provide a download of Factory presets w/o for people that use real speaker cabs. I know most people don't use Factory presets but they're good for demoing a product.

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You can use the Send block to send your sound right before the amp/cab block.  On the Helix you can have one preset output 4 different signals with different amount of "stuff".  So you can split your signal right before the amp, add the same delay as you would have, etc, and get your sans-amp signal from the Send 1 jack.

 

If I were to be perfectly honest, just use the processor for the amp sounds, don't bother with the 4 cable methods, or this.  Helix sounds great.  Just plug it into an FRFR or an effects loop of an amp, or get yourself Baby Bomb by Mooer, which is a stomp-sized power amp. 

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6 hours ago, theElevators said:

You can use the Send block to send your sound right before the amp/cab block. 

 

But how does that even remotely solve the problem? You'd still have to switch it on/off per preset, you'd be losing a block and you'd be losing overall volume control via the volume knob.

 

6 hours ago, theElevators said:

If I were to be perfectly honest, just use the processor for the amp sounds, don't bother with the 4 cable methods, or this.  Helix sounds great.  Just plug it into an FRFR or an effects loop of an amp, or get yourself Baby Bomb by Mooer, which is a stomp-sized power amp. 

 

Again, this has zero to do with what has been asked for. There's plenty of people running their Helixes through traditional amplification.

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On 1/9/2022 at 3:18 PM, GotMetalBoy said:

Is there a way to globally disable all Cab Blocks and Impulse Response Blocks to use a Helix Floor with real speaker cab?

 

As you have learned.... no, there is no way to do that on the Helix. 

 

FWIW... I always have two copies of my presets. One with the "AMP/CAB or IR"... and the same one without.

Here is a very basic example of how I set up my presets... 

  • Preset 1A - 4B might hold all my "live" presets with amp/cab models. 
  • Presets 10A - 14B is an exact copy... but with the amp/cab models disengaged. 

Using HX Edit.... setting up that second set of presets only takes a few minutes - but of course that would be dependent on how many "live" presets you actually use. I don't use very many, so it's a practical solution for my situation :)  

 

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Fwiw, as I said above: In case you're not using any external expression pedals, you could use that as a global cab on/off switch. Hardwired latched switches work globally.

Of course, you'd have to go through each patch once and assign it to your cab/IR block(s).

 

Btw, also goes to show how easy it'd be to implement something like that straight on the unit, regardless of how relentlessly the Line 6 folks (plus their fanbois) are trying to tell you it'd be impossible due to the Helix' "modular" approach or because you might as well use IRs for other things than plain cab simulation.

Add something like a "virtual EXP switch" (of course it should be called something different) and a checkbox to the cab/IR blocks (whether to assign it to that switch or not) and there we go. The entire programming infrastructure is there already, should be a piece of cake for any decent programmers.

But hey, it won't happen anyway, I'd bet on that (just as so many things don't happen even if they'd make plenty of sense), so we will keep seeing these questions pop up regularly.

 

Heck, this could even be expanded. Add the same functionality for amp and loop blocks and you could use the very same presets for DI purposes or with your analog amp 4CM style.

Or add this to any block (along with a number of "virtual EXP pedals") and you could, say, assign global boosts, EQs, reverbs and what not. Would make a lot of sense when, say, switching between wedge monitors and IEMs, you could just switch on a nice little ambient room for monitoring pleasure. Etc. But as said, we won't see anything like that.

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12 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Fwiw, as I said above: In case you're not using any external expression pedals, you could use that as a global cab on/off switch. Hardwired latched switches work globally.

Of course, you'd have to go through each patch once and assign it to your cab/IR block(s).

 

The Stomp is set up to use simple external switches.... but the Helix Floor/LT requires a little more effort. 

  • The switch must be wired with some resistance. 
  • The blocks you want to control need to be set to "auto-engage" when that resistance is applied... (or reversed with the EXP invert control) 
    I was mistaken about this
  • NOTE: If there is zero resistance on the "off" position.. the external EXP will disconnect. This can lead to unpredictable results. I wired the switch with 10k as my "on" position, and about 100ohm as my off position. This avoided these issues. 

If I am mistaken I'd be happy to say I'm wrong.... but the last time I worked on using an external EXP as an "on/off" with my LT... those were the issues I found. (they are not difficult to implement... but needed to be done)

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, codamedia said:

If I am mistaken I'd be happy to say I'm wrong.... but the last time I worked on using an external EXP as an "on/off" with my LT... those were the issues I found. (they are not difficult to implement... but needed to be done)

 

Hm, not sure but I haven't stumbled over any issues myself. I actually just tried, connected a plain hardwired on/off switch to the EXP 3 input and assigned the IR block's bypass to it in two different patches. They were following the status of the external switch just fine and kept that status while switching between those two patches.

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5 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

Hm, not sure but I haven't stumbled over any issues myself. I actually just tried, connected a plain hardwired on/off switch to the EXP 3 input and assigned the IR block's bypass to it in two different patches. They were following the status of the external switch just fine and kept that status while switching between those two patches.

 

Hmmmm..... Maybe I should try a simple switch again. When I get a moment I will. 

With the LT I only have EXP2 as an option. By chance, have you tried EXP 2 on the floor, or just EXP 3?

 

EDIT TO ADD:

Yes, I can assign the ON/OFF state of a block to EXP2 (which eliminates the need of auto engage)... 

However a simple latching switch does not work for me... that same switch with a 10K resister hard wired does work. 

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20 minutes ago, codamedia said:

However a simple latching switch does not work for me... that same switch with a 10K resister hard wired does work. 

 

I actually didn't examine the switch I used, but it's one of the plain types, just on/off. Ok, it *does* have an indicator LED which is even sort of fed (doesn't glow very bright when not using the optional 9V input) by the Helix' EXP socket, so maybe there's some resistance existing. I could possibly try with just a naked switch, but ATM I can't find any. Could try with a sustain pedal (and just keep it pressed to simulate the "on" status), but the straight jack doesn't make it into the Helix as long as it's mounted inside my pedalboard case.
Anyhow, I remember fooling around with another (completely plain) switch and from my memory, it worked as well - but I wouldn't bet on it (used it for different purposes).

 

However, something such as this could easily be replicated just in the digital realm, allowing for global on/off switches. There could, say, be 4 virtual global switches and each block could feature an advanced menu, allowing you to connect a block's on/off status to one of those global switches. Yeah, might confuse some user - and because of that, it should possibly not be part of a patch itself but an internal hardware "play" choice valid only per physical unit.

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Ok, I did in fact just try with a sustain pedal (which is really just a naked momentary open/close switch) and it doesn't work at all. I mean, that thing doesn't even work for switching anything when staying within a single patch (the pedal itself is working just fine, it's the one I'm using every day for my "master" keyboard), there's quite some erroneous things happening.

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46 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

Ok, I did in fact just try with a sustain pedal (which is really just a naked momentary open/close switch) and it doesn't work at all. I mean, that thing doesn't even work for switching anything when staying within a single patch (the pedal itself is working just fine, it's the one I'm using every day for my "master" keyboard), there's quite some erroneous things happening.

 

As I have found with my LT... if something is connected to the EXP jack, the Helix expects to see some resistance values in order to work. The Stomp has the ability to actually add basic footswitches, not the full size Helix units. 

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19 minutes ago, codamedia said:

the Helix expects to see some resistance values in order to work.

 

That's quite awkward. You'd think that any plain on/off switch should do the job, really. I mean, especially as we're talking about switches that are absolutely common for pretty much tons of related tasks. Even weirder as the smaller units don't suffer from that issue - makes the bigger units look like some testing equipment.

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4 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Even weirder as the smaller units don't suffer from that issue - makes the bigger units look like some testing equipment.

 

Well... the big units did come a few years before the stomp... so yeah, it makes sense that the thought came later to make them more "multi-function". 

I won't blame Line 6 for petty stuff like this... seriously, it's easy to overcome & I've got way more important things to worry about in life. 

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8 hours ago, codamedia said:

I won't blame Line 6 for petty stuff like this...

 

Fine (seriously), but I will.

This ain't rocket science. I mean, I just tried and connected the same sustain pedal to my rusty GT-5, GT-10 and Zoom G3. Needless to say: It works with all of them.

So, you may have a bunch of switches hanging around that used to work just fine for decades - but then you connect them to Line 6's flagship guitar modeler and they refuse to work?

Fwiw, once I connect a 9V power supply to the working switch (so the LED shines a bit brighter), the switch won't work with the Helix anymore, either (again needless to say: it does work with the other units, did a quick check while I was at it). The very same switch also served me well for amp channel switching purposes and what not. Really, the only device that ever caused issues happens to be the Helix.

I know, I'm sounding like a broken record on repeat, but Line 6's hardware quality assurance seems to be pretty bad in general (I already posted about several other issues).

Fortunately, for the time being, none of the existing issues affects me much (I would like to have a brighter LED on that switch, should I integrate it again, though...), but all this will defenitely have an impact on any future purchase plans. Namely: no Line 6 products for Mr. Franck anymore (I'm sure plenty of you folks can't await that moment anymore).

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