How Much DB is Cut in a LowCut Filter?

[VmusicV]

Hi,

 I was wondering how much DB do the Global EQ and the Stereo Parametric EQ actually cut (in DB)?

 

I have the Global EQ set to cut low frequencies - as shown; and I have the Stereo Parametric EQ in the signal chain with a low cut - as shown  :::   however, as I run the signal into my DAW, my EQ inside my DAW is suggesting or showing that a ton of low frequencies are still coming through.   see the screen snapshot below.   PLEASE - Aside from the fact both the Global EQ and Stereo Parametric EQ are "supposedly" performing the same function - it seems these low frequency filters aren't working or they're not cutting out very much DB. What's the purpose of a low cut filter, if it doesn't work.  

 

What or how many DB actually gets cut or filtered out in the Stereo Parametric EQ???  

Is there a way to 'set' how much DB gets cut in the Low Cut filter in the Stereo Parametric EQ?    [my DAW lets me cut 96db]

 

 

My DAW provides an EQ that does a 96db cut, which "seems" much, much more than the Helix's ability (either the Global EQ or the Stereo Parametric EQ);    Is there a BETTER fx block to accomplish filtering out low frequencies?    [opbviously....for use in live performances where I have no computer or DAW]

 

Is there a setting or something that invalidates or prevents these low cut filters from working somehow?

 

Thanks in Advance

UnCut in Columbus......

 

[VmusicV]

From what I can see in the settings......   Helix can only cut -12db.  

 

AGAIN..... it looks like this (-12db cut at about 50 Hz) doesn't do much - in my DAW's EQ, I can see sound levels of -6 db coming in at the low frequencies they are "supposed" to be cut at. This seems like a rather lame "low cut" filter. 

 

Does the EQ analysis shown support my statement here?  I think so?   [PLEASE.... look at the EQ picture in the original post, where you can see all of the low frequency sound coming in]

 

Thanks

AJ

 

[rvroberts]

Well, I believe 12dB is 12dB an octave.

So if you place a 12dB roll off at 80Hz, it is 24dB at 40Hz and 36dB at 20Hz.

In a real world sense, that seems to do the trick!

I don't think anything in the Helix does more.

I do regularly use high and low cuts and then also use another EQ (so I'm free to ad cut upon cut)

I like the Cali Q Graphic simply because those frequencies are so well placed for tone sculpting and I generally have the 80Hz pulled down a bit too (-5dB being typical - but that's because I hate boom and play with a keyboard player using big sounds and try to keep out of the way!

Obviously the Cali Q is not a fine tuner - but it's a surprisingly good tone shaper.

I've never needed more than that.

[datacommando]

6 hours ago, VmusicV said:

 

Is there a setting or something that invalidates or prevents these low cut filters from working somehow?

 

Here we go again - first regarding Global EQ.

 

Here’s a quote from Digital Igloo, way back in 2016.

 

 

“Global EQ is designed for compensating for the myriad environments in which you might play. As every DAW on the planet has stock EQ plugins that are likely more flexible than Helix's Global EQ, it made little sense to waste precious DSP on something largely unnecessary. Helix's routing dictates that each pair of outputs requires its own Global EQ block - currently we have one for the 1/4" outputs and another for the XLRs, and the Global EQ page controls them both simultaneously. That's how you can pick which one has Global EQ applied.

 

Basically, the more pairs of outputs that monitor Global EQ, the fewer simultaneous blocks you'd be able to run.“

 

If you want to know more about using a Parametric EQ, then watch this video, from Richie Castellano of Blue Oyster Cult, who will explain it for you. 

 

 

Jason Sadites will explain Hi & Lo Cut for you - watch this.

 

 

I would usually say “Hope this helps/makes sense”, but as it’s you I won’t bother, because if there is a hard way of doing something - you will probably find it.

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by datacommando
Added vid

[VmusicV]

Here we go again with forum users who a) DO NOT READ the post   b) CAN'T COMPREHEND the post...........  but then provide worthless feedback. 

 

I said in my post (which you obviously NEVER READ) - the need for low cut is for live situations.  The only reason I used a DAW is to view or to measure what Helix is, or is not doing. My post has NOTHING to do with me recording the Helix. NOTHING about me actually recording sound from the Helix was ever mentioned. But you READ something that wasn't even there.  The only reason there was even a DAW mentioned was for "measuring" or "viewing" what Helix was actually doing.       OBVIOUSLY.... you CAN NOT get this lovely view in Helix itself like you do with nice EQs (like FabFilter and others). Axe-Fx has an fx block that is an analyzer; it's not as nice as the EQs in DAWs, but in a similar fashion to those, you can it measures the db of sound at about 15 various frequencies. It's somewhat mimics these nice EQs, just from a visual perspective of what's going on.  

 

2 hours ago, datacommando said:

As every DAW on the planet has stock EQ plugins that are likely more flexible than Helix's Global EQ,

 

Then you - didn't really read my post, but jumped off in worthless commando style and shot off some nonsense from 2016 that is irrelevant to what my requirements or needs are. 

 

QUIT the forum, since you don't have the capability of ACTUALLY reading and understanding what's written or what's being asked - and save yourself a lot of wasted time or worthless replies. REALLY.

Later, when I have some time, I'll look at Mr. Sadites video on high and low cut. I know what I visually see coming out of the Helix, and I'm not thrilled with it. 

 

[codamedia]

@VmusicV .... 

 

I do not know the amount the Low Cut applies, but I do know different "blocks" are different. EG: Low Cut in the cab block is not equal to Low Cut in the Parametric, etc... etc.... I believe they have very different slopes. What I do know... is that their is always enough to handle any problem I have, but that just my experience. 

 

If you run "pink noise" through the Helix and monitor the results (graphically) in a DAW you can get accurate measurements of how much the cut is... what the slope is.... and where the slop begins. A guitar signal won't give you accurate readings.... use Pink Noise. 

 

I could easily get the numbers for you... but I have no need to do it myself. You seem to have a need, so go for it! 

[datacommando]

11 hours ago, VmusicV said:

I have the Global EQ set to cut low frequencies - as shown; and I have the Stereo Parametric EQ in the signal chain with a low cut - as shown  :::   however, as I run the signal into my DAW, my EQ inside my DAW is suggesting or showing that a ton of low frequencies are still coming through.

 

You really are don't get it do you? You posted a screen grab of the Helix Floor Global EQ setting, and a comparison image of the signal in a DAW. The point I was making, by posting that quote from 2016, was the simple fact that Global EQ settings from the Helix don't work over USB into a DAW.

 

Jason's video should help you to understand Hi and Lo Cut. Also, you could try what "codamedia" suggested - run a blast of pink noise through it and measure that.

 

That's all there is to it - don't get so excited.

[rvroberts]

So almost totally unrelated..........but........here I go anyhow!!

Just because someone on YouTube says  - Global EQ is just for live - doesn't make it so!

Yes, I agree it's not doing anything to your USB signal.

Different situation if you plug into an interface though.

Mind you I'd love that style of EQ as a module.

But - I personally found that Global EQ (used sanely) is a great way to put all my patches "in the ball park" pretty much instantly. (Cuts built in!)

I don't ever change it live - I long ago learnt that a guitar player on stage making decisions for the sound in the room is a mistake - a boomy stage is just as likely a hollow floor under the stage and has nothing to do with out front sound.

I do a few things to deal with that stuff though - 

My wedges (FRFRish and running off the Helix outs) face me.

They have basic EQ where I can make changes that are quick and don't effect the FOH.

I put isolation under them.

I find that the sound I get is very consistent.  I might tweak the bass or top a little given time - but if I don't its still very acceptable - much more so than it used to be with traditional amps.

This works - FOH guys are always complimentary. They can pull my guitar up flat and be pretty much ready to go.

Obviously there are other ways to "skin a cat" - but that's how I do it.

There is no rule here.

[codamedia]

10 hours ago, rvroberts said:

Yes, I agree it's not doing anything to your USB signal.

Different situation if you plug into an interface though.

Mind you I'd love that style of EQ as a module.

 

Are you saying you would like an EQ Block that is similar to the "Global EQ"?

If so.... the Parametric EQ is the same aside from the fact it isn't "visual" in HX Edit like the Global EQ is.

 

10 hours ago, rvroberts said:

But - I personally found that Global EQ (used sanely) is a great way to put all my patches "in the ball park" pretty much instantly. (Cuts built in!)

 

This is why many Helix users have a Parametric EQ toward the ends of their chains. If it's a part of every preset, the cuts can be adjusted for each preset which is especially handy for multi-instrumentalists requiring different cuts. 

 

10 hours ago, rvroberts said:

Obviously there are other ways to "skin a cat" - but that's how I do it.

There is no rule here.

 

Correct you are! 

[craiganderton]

Well, now this got me curious, so...here's what a Spectrum Level meter shows with a parametric EQ 65 Hz low cut, response from 20 Hz to 20 kHz. I looked at a different spectrum analyzer (that's more difficult to read as a screen shot) to check response below 20 Hz, and it continued downward to the limit of the analyzer's response. So, the low cut filter definitely cuts lows.

 

 

As to why the OP got different results, I don't know. I noticed in the screen shot that the low cut parametric seems to be followed by an active compressor. That could be compressing the lows back up, or contributing low-frequency energy of its own. Or maybe there's something else in the signal path that's not accounted for. HTH