Helix 4CM setup and instrument/speaker cables (I think I got this right)

[FeanorOfTirion]

Hey, guys

 

I'm just getting back into guitar after a 5 year break and to celebrate my return I picked up a Helix LT which will be here this week sometime. Before I quit playing, the extent of my effects usage was just plugging a pedal chain into the front input of my amp and calling it good. Now that the LT is on its way, I want to be sure I can run a proper effects loop on my tube amp and not fry any of my electronics. After watching a number of videos on the 4CM setup, I think I have the right idea with the cables and for keeping input/output levels proper for good tone.

 

I was hoping someone could check my work on this, so I know that I understand what I am doing.

 

Cables

1. Instrument cable from (output on guitar) to (guitar input on the LT)

2. Instrument cable from (send 1 on LT) to (guitar input of amp)

3. Instrument cable from (effects loop send on amp) to (return 2 on the LT)

4. Instrument cable from (1/4" output on LT) to (effects loop return on amp)

5. Speaker cable from (speaker out on amp) to (speaker cabinet input)

 

Global Settings on Helix

Output: 1/4" set to line level

Send/Return 1: Set to instrument level

Send/Return 2: Set to line level

Send/Return 3/4 & XLR Output: Irrelevant to current setup.

 

If you have any input, hot tips, or see any mistakes here please let me know.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Feanor

[tjbassoon]

4 hours ago, FeanorOfTirion said:

effects loop on my tube amp and not fry any of my electronics

You probably aren't going to do that anyway.

 

But that said. No reason to use Return 2. Just use Return 1.

I would personally set all ouputs to instrument level first, and only jump up to line level if you think it is needed. I think most amps expect instrument level.

 

Otherwise this looks good to me. If you want effects in the loop, my suggestion is to set the Path 1 output to Send 1, set the Path 2 input to Return 1, and then Path 2 output to 1/4". Then anything in Path 1 goes into the front of the amp, anything in Path 2 goes in the effects loop. Add no effects at first and compare the sound/volume of this setup to running just Guitar into Amp directly with no Helix, and no cables in the FX Loop of the amp. Just to make sure your basic level is the same.

 

I am running a very similar setup right now.

[rd2rk]

All good.

 

[rd2rk]

2 minutes ago, tjbassoon said:

But that said. No reason to use Return 2. Just use Return 1.

 

You're gonna hate me.

 

I've always done it that way, and it works.

But after a go-round with another forumite over Jason Sadites' recommendation to use two FX loops as described above, I'm liking that method better. There's less hum, and it's easier to get a balance when using a really hot tube preamp. I'd tried the two loop method in the past, but normally when I use 4cm I'm using my tube amp as a clean channel and Helix with one of the higher gain models, and I hadn't noticed a big difference.

 

I don't have any FX pedals to try this with right now, but I suspect that the single FX loop method will work fine with FX pedals, and the two loop method will work better with 4cm.

I think I'm going to pick up a couple of pedals the next time I go past our local cheap pedal store to test this theory with. I've never seen/heard anyone talk about one method being better than the other depending on use case (4cm vs FX pedals). I'm going to feel really silly if it turns out to be true, since I've been telling people to use a single loop with 4cm for years.

 

[tjbassoon]

47 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

You're gonna hate me.

 

I've always done it that way, and it works.

But after a go-round with another forumite over Jason Sadites' recommendation to use two FX loops as described above, I'm liking that method better. There's less hum, and it's easier to get a balance when using a really hot tube preamp. I'd tried the two loop method in the past, but normally when I use 4cm I'm using my tube amp as a clean channel and Helix with one of the higher gain models, and I hadn't noticed a big difference.

 

I don't have any FX pedals to try this with right now, but I suspect that the single FX loop method will work fine with FX pedals, and the two loop method will work better with 4cm.

I think I'm going to pick up a couple of pedals the next time I go past our local cheap pedal store to test this theory with. I've never seen/heard anyone talk about one method being better than the other depending on use case (4cm vs FX pedals). I'm going to feel really silly if it turns out to be true, since I've been telling people to use a single loop with 4cm for years.

 

 

So even if you're only using two cables to go through the amp FX loop, you're still saying that using Return 2 has less hum? That doesn't make any logical sense. Weird!

[rd2rk]

15 minutes ago, tjbassoon said:

 

So even if you're only using two cables to go through the amp FX loop, you're still saying that using Return 2 has less hum? That doesn't make any logical sense. Weird!

 

More experimentation is needed, and I only noticed it with the tube pre gain cranked.

This is Helix...what is this "logic" you speak of? :-)

[FeanorOfTirion]

Glad to hear I managed to get it right!

 

Thanks guys